It's because you have an open differential, they always favor the side with the least traction, usually the right. An ATB (Auto Torque Biasing) Diff such as the Torsen Quaife or M Factory (commonly known as LSD Limited Slip Differential) will take care of this and be the single best upgrade you have ever done to the car. The downside is cost. The diff is not overly expensive but if you cannot install it yourself the labor will bust your balls. It's about a 10 hour job for shop rate. That would be 800-1000 at most shops nowadays.

This is all assuming you have an MTX, If you have a DTC you are SOL.

 

Uneven road surfaces will produce similar effects to this.

 

When I have slippage on snowy roads and am stopped at a light or sign, I simply take off slower than normal. Problem solved.

 

^ Yep. TC can help (to an extent), but it's really up to the driver. People got along without it for years, and on occasion if it's really bad out, I'll just shut it off.

 

Again, don't remember doing it the first 2 winters in my Focus. Also never had the same problem in other FWD I've owned where it would jink to 1 side in snow like that. Understand about limited slip differentials and all, but it is like sometimes the left side is not providing ANY traction on take off from a stop when there is snow, even when the snow is not that slick/deep. The 1st time I noticed this was last winter when I was on the highway and I was about to take an off ramp. I was going maybe 45-50 mph and steered right (not sharply) and gave it some gas (not hard acceleration) and it started pulling to the right the same way. Thought the whole point of traction control was a system trying to apply power evenly through the wheels. Shouldn't the system (torque vectoring) have applied the brake on the right wheel to even out the power to the wheels and keep the car veering to the right? I've had FWD cars in the past with no ABS and no traction control and they didn't show the one sided-traction characteristic of my Focus in the snow. At least no where near to the same extent.

Would really like to hear from other MK3 Focus owners in the snow states that have driven their cars in winter and have experienced any similar issues.

 

Again, don't remember doing it the first 2 winters in my Focus. Also never had the same problem in other FWD I've owned where it would jink to 1 side in snow like that. Understand about limited slip differentials and all, but it is like sometimes the left side is not providing ANY traction on take off from a stop when there is snow, even when the snow is not that slick/deep. The 1st time I noticed this was last winter when I was on the highway and I was about to take an off ramp. I was going maybe 45-50 mph and steered right (not sharply) and gave it some gas (not hard acceleration) and it started pulling to the right the same way. Thought the whole point of traction control was a system trying to apply power evenly through the wheels. Shouldn't the system (torque vectoring) have applied the brake on the right wheel to even out the power to the wheels and keep the car veering to the right? I've had FWD cars in the past with no ABS and no traction control and they didn't show the one sided-traction characteristic of my Focus in the snow. At least no where near to the same extent.



Would really like to hear from other MK3 Focus owners in the snow states that have driven their cars in winter and have experienced any similar issues.

Bro, it's snowing like shit up here in Canada, I own a 12 titanium, it really helps if you only lightly step on the accelerator, don't worry about cars behind you, if they honk they can f themselves, if road conditions are bad, go slower, take care to your driving, and good luck out there, a lot of idiots are around

 

Each FWD car model (really any different car model) will have their own little quirks and nuances when it comes to driving in the winter. Some seem to do great, others not so much. So, maybe some MK3 owners can chime in.

Also, a lot of variables come into play. How much salt is on the roads, tread depth/tread design, road crowning, etc. From your original post, it is doubtful that there is anything "wrong" with your car. At the end of the day, it's primarily up to the driver on how well the car performs when it gets slippery out.

 

I concur^^^^^^Its mainly up to the driver.

 

My focus doesn't like even a trace of snow so I am forced to turn off traction control and the problem goes away.

 

Last winter was the first I got to experience with my '12 (DCT) and it was as sure footed as a billy goat anywhere I wanted it to go as long as I had the Traction Control turned off

My Focus was absolutely awful in the snow last winter. I consider myself a pretty competent driver, and I struggled. My last FWD car did not have traction control and it went everywhere. I'm hoping part of it was stock tires. I upgraded to Conti DWS but haven't experienced snow with them yet.

It is really all about the tires on the car, imho. With the OEM tires TC would come on all the time and it would kill the car to the point it needed to be turn off. I now run snow tires and TC really doesn't kick in unless I make it kick in.

The Focus is great in the snow and the OEM tires made me doubt that. Get a better set of all-season tires or snow tires and it will make a world of difference.

 

Last winter was the first I got to experience with my '12 (DCT) and it was as sure footed as a billy goat anywhere I wanted it to go as long as I had the Traction Control turned off

 

Yeah I AM an Mk3 owner since mid-2013, living in very snowy Canada. I don't understand how there are so many people that feel like their car doesn't behave as it should and turn TC off while I can drive on literally pure ice and snow all day everyday and still be fine. Ultimately I think it comes down more to preference than the car, and an easy justification to turn off TC for the cool factor. This is my third winter and I haven't had any issues on slippery surfaces since the first year when I did indeed experience much of what "TURN THE EVIL TC OFF" (lol it's a joke calm down!) crowd cite, including the pull to the right.

I just slowed down in winter driving. Easy as pie.

As of yet, there are no known issues with the TC system minor or major, at least not that haven been reported here or listed as TSBs or any of that. Always just people claiming their car can't drive in the snow, and so, I reiterate, the problem is likely PEBWAC. Sorry!

 

I wouldn't say it's a "problem" with the car, it just behaves differently than I'm used to. For example, my wife's Kia "behaves" more like I would expect. It will slip if you give it too much throttle, but if you're easy on it, it will get you going. It seems like in my Focus I struggle to find the balance between throttle & traction.

 

Oh I forgot, but it's been mentioned, ALL THE OTHER variables that play into traction. Tires in terms of brand, composite, season, tread depth and especially their age. The Cooper A/S are shit in winter, hands down.

It was also mentioned, salt, sand or whatever they use, plus the slippery variance in the road is constantly fluctuating between ice, black ice, ice with water on top, ice with snow on top, and as anyone in a snowy place can atest, on the roads, those things can vary inch to inch.

I've especially learned this driving my manual ZX3 over patchy snow cover on the roads. Grip, no grip, grip, no grip. The only thing I can do is drive slower

PS. Not denying there is a problem, just, I've read it all, so I'm sharing my own perspective as influenced by my experience and a couple years of watching threads like this like a hawk.

 

Here's a tip from an over 65 driver who grew up driving in Chicago winters:

If you have the DCT, put your car in S rather than D, and use the + button to put the transmission in second gear before you start up. If it's a manual, use second gear to start out. Give it just enough gas to get going, then you can shift normally. You get less torque in second gear, and you avoid wheel spin.

 

My car won't shift to second now with the new update, it won't allow gear shifting unless the car is in motion or the revs are high enough

 

Well, I have been driving since 1984 and have had big block RWD V8's, and 4 and V6 RWD and FWD so it's not like I don't know that you have to slow down in the snow. It wasn't like I was flooring the accelerator on take off and I have all I described (good tires, alignment, etc.), so no reason for a FWD car to have such lousy traction on take off when the snow wasn't that deep.

So after my post I went out to a parking lot that had about 3 inches of snow and did some test runs. First time since owning my Focus that I have turned off the TC. Here is my results.



So it IS the traction control. Which to me makes no sense. I thought traction control was supposed to reduce power or apply brakes to the wheel that is spinning. Makes no sense that traction is worse WITH traction control. As I said, I don't remember the same problem the first couple of winters, so wondering if there is a faulty module or something? I'll mention it when I take it in for my next oil change.

 

So it IS the traction control. Which to me makes no sense. I thought traction control was supposed to reduce power or apply brakes to the wheel that is spinning. Makes no sense that traction is worse WITH traction control. As I said, I don't remember the same problem the first couple of winters, so wondering if there is a faulty module or something? I'll mention it when I take it in for my next oil change.

the traction control works by applying hte brake to the slipping tire and sending that torque to the other tire.

this by definition will cause torque steer.

Also if the car is moving right, its the left tire that has traction, not the right tire.

if you put a LSD like a torsen in, it causes crazy torque steer.

also has no one mentioned in this thread, just get snow tires. then all winter traction problems disapear.

 

Mine, pulls to the right many times when I'm starting off on snow. I have snow tires, and TC helps get me moving forward, I just anticipate it pulling to the right and apply a little left hand steering when I first start off. I think it has something to do with torque steer, as well as the crown of the road. Remember that no road or parking is actually flat.

 

Only the ST have torque steer as far as I've heard. As far as I know, only high hp front wheel drive, such as turbocharged FWD have it as modern FWD cars have equal length half shafts. I had a 1986 Dodge Omni GLH back in the day and sometimes when I would stomp on the gas, the car would jerk to one side even though it only had 110 hp. But back then, FWD cars had unequal half shafts. My Omni also had a lousy rod linkage shift mechanism which led to many a rough shift.

One of, if not the best car in the snow I've owned so far was my 2001 Chrysler Intrepid SE. No traction control, no ABS, but it would plow through the snow around here on the stock all season tires. The LH cars were pretty front heavy with 65% of the weight in front. Probably why I only got about 30k out of a set of front rotors. And yes, it was a Chrysler, not a Dodge. Many used Canadian model Intrepids were sold in the US. They were badged as Chryslers and had DRL's, and an engine block and battery heater added. My best winter car overall was my 1977 Lincoln town car. Had a hood over 5 feet long, and was built like a tank, and just about as heavy. Was so frickin heavy, I didn't need to put snow tires on it. I would sometimes pull from a stoplight while FWD cars were still spinning tires for traction. Plus I could run over stuff like curbs and signs (I did once, snapped a parking sign out of the ground like a matchstick, lol) and keep on going.

 

Stability in snow can end up backwards from what you might expect.

LACK of traction control/limited slip etc. helps with stability & tracking where you want it to in most cases, since only one wheel spins & chews through while the other rolls easy helping steer it & keep things tracking better.

When both wheels at either end loose more traction that end will step out more, any crown in the road makes it go right even more with FWD.

Put a limited slip in a bud's P/U once, he wanted it for better snow traction. Without a load in the back it just kicked the tail loose twice as easily. Downright difficult to drive by comparison to when only one wheel slipped.

 

Even with the equal length half shaft setups you still have torque steer, it's just tamed and equalized more.

As you noted, better balanced improves dry handling but it reduces FWD traction - particularly in the snow.

 

Yes, snow tires. Check around your area for deals or go all out if you are going to stay in that snowy area for awhile. If you are changing them every season they will last a very long time. I had a set for 8 years, only ran them from dec 15-march-15.

Your all seasons sound like they got some wear on them.

 

Snow tires definitely help in my experience, but I feel like the TC could be a bit better. The manual states that the TC system uses the brakes and/or reduces engine power.

If I keep giving the car gas, the traction control light flashes, but the wheels keep slipping until I let off the gas. I feel like it defeats the purpose of traction control...?

Plus, sometimes I want the wheels to spin to get all of the snow out of the treads! [strongman]

Traction control system (TCS)
Traction control is a driver aid feature that helps your vehicle maintain
traction of the wheels, typically when driving on slippery and/or hilly
road surfaces, by detecting and controlling wheel spin.

Excessive wheel spin is controlled in two ways, which may work
separately or in tandem, engine traction control and brake traction
control. Engine traction control works to limit drive-wheel spin by
momentarily reducing engine power. Brake traction control works to limit
wheel spin by momentarily applying the brakes to the wheel that is
slipping. Traction control is most active at low speeds.

During TCS events, the stability control light in the instrument cluster
will flash.

If the TCS is activated excessively in a short period of time, the braking
portion of the system may become temporarily disabled to allow the
brakes to cool down. In this situation, TCS will use only engine power
reduction or transfer to help control the wheels from over-spinning.
When the brakes have cooled down, the system will regain all features.
Anti-lock braking, and ESC are not affected by this condition and will
continue to function during the cool-down period.

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/catalog/owner_guides/12focog5e.pdf

 

TCS systems are good for catching unexpected sudden spinning of a wheel or wheels, but not helpful when you know that's likely and you need some wheel spin to move in slippery conditions where that can help. Turning it off for snow, mud etc. is mentioned in the manual, but only as far as getting unstuck.

Legal caution keeps the advice minimal, they don't want to tell you to turn it off and have someone sue if they lose control.

Note how the comments on ABS mention that it doesn't decrease stopping distance. Also doesn't mention how it can INCREASE stopping distance in some situations.

All the "driver aids" can help in some circumstances and hinder in others, that "brake assist" that throws it into max braking if you apply them fast could be an issue as well if less than that is really needed.

 

As a side question - this is my first car that has had TC. Is it supposed to be so aggressive? When it kicks on, the whole car shakes and it's very loud.

 

i bet if TC had a simple push button like most cars, this wouldnt even be an issue to just switch it off real quick and back on. its one of my issues with my focus 14

 

Yeah, it's definitely a pain. I thought the newer (2015+) Foci had a button, but maybe it's just the STs?

 

in my 14 i have to go thru the 4 steps of the menu, roughly 3 seconds..which is an eternity if youre trying to get out of a spot since i do prefer to drive with it normally on.

 

U dont need traction control and dont need abs breaks. They just started to make it on all cars.

 

Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. You've got 3-4 year old all-seasons on your car and your whining about traction control and broken modules or whatever? Get new tires, seriously.

 

Push button "off" for T/C is best IMO, you can use it to help "catch" the car the first time it starts to slip at speed then turn it off fast for better control now that you're warned.

This works well as traction conditions deteriorate, particularly if it doesn't LOOK too bad yet. Gives a good reference for when it first gets slick enough to slip.

I bet the bleepin' lawyers had a hand in making it a longer process on the everyday cars, citing avoidance of "accidental" deactivation claims & including the requirement to turn it off each time the car is started. This makes it much less useful since you NEED to turn it off earlier when you have time for the long process (my opinion).

'12 "S" model MkIII has it the worst, no stock method to turn it off at all.


Don't want to get started on the whole subject of "dumbing down" driving, over-reliance on driver aids ends up causing as many problems as they were meant to prevent - type just changes.

 

1) As I said in my post, I wasn't experiencing the issue that I can recall the first 2 or 3 winters (this will be my 5th winter with my car). I've never needed snow tires in a FWD car because though we get snow in my area, it's not huge (like it used to be in the 1970's). I've always gotten through the winter as long as I had good tread on my tires.

2) I do know how to drive in the snow. I'm 50 years old and have been driving in the snow (since 1984) before some people on this forum were even born.

3) I can't believe a car manufacturer would make a traction control system that makes traction worse. Especially a system that is engaged by default when you turn on the ignition. That would be poor engineering if you ask me. To me it is not working as it should if one wheel is spinning like crazy and causing the car to jink to the right. The traction control should be kicking in to reduce power or apply brakes to the spinning wheel, shouldn't it? And again as I said my car has been in motion and I gave it some power and the right wheel started to spin and the car started pulling to the right.

I made an appointment yesterday to take it in on Tuesday to see what they say. If they are going to tell me it's normal then to me it's poor engineering and I will be looking for a new car in the spring.

 

If the right wheel is spinning, how is it pulling your car to the right?

And how do you know it's "spinning like crazy"? We're you able to actually observe the wheel spinning freely? Traction control will allow some spin, otherwise you just wouldn't go anywhere on some surfaces.

 

Can hear/feel the right wheel spinning when it is pulling to the right. Could see a fan shaped track in the snow like a spinning wheel pulling in a sideways motion. At least that's my perception as of course I can't look at it from the outside. Seems to me the TC is applying brakes to the left wheel and not the right, allowing the right wheel to spin for traction and pull the car right. If the TC wasn't applying brakes to the left wheel, I would think that if the left wheel wasn't spinning and there fore getting traction while the right was not (causing it to spin), then wouldn't the car pull to the left, if that side was getting traction while the right side would not?

Just doesn't make sense to me. In my diagram, that is exactly what the tire mark patterns were in the snow. So I did 3 "runs" by pulling forward about 500 feet. Backing the car up and pulling forward again. Did 3 times first with traction control off. Car wheels spun for a second, then car pulled evenly and straight forward. Not to one side or the other. Repeated the same procedure then with traction control off. Car went forward straight for a short bit then pulled to the right like in the diagram. When I have lost traction like this, it is always to the right, never the left.

Okay so here's my beef with the traction control. If the car is able to get traction with no problem and go in a straight line with traction control OFF from a standstill, then there is sufficient traction obviously. So why then when I turn traction control off, the system seems to think there isn't enough traction and starts braking on the left wheel (I'm guessing that is what is happening) thereby causing the car to jink to the right. If there is obviously enough traction with the system turned off, then with it on, it shouldn't sense the need to intervene.

I made an appointment on Tuesday to have them check it. I was going to make an appointment before I asked on the forum. I was just trying to get some feedback to see if any other members who drive in the snow have ever experienced anything similar before I took my car in so the mechanics don't look at me like I'm crazy.

Really appreciate the silly "slow down" comments though. Those were really helpful. [rolleyes]