[2013 SE Hatch]

I was wrong, they're virtually identical. The only difference is they lowered the gain of the amplifier on the newer '16, which does help minimize shocking me half to death when the thing looses it's mind. (I removed the metal shield on the older '13 unit.)

 

[Ian123]

Ford lost a lot of experienced engineers when they offloaded their electronics division, purchasing became their focus (as they no longer manufactured electronics) and the cost cutting began, unfortunately quality comes at a price!

 

[Ian123]

This only has a single tuner and only 4 channel, it is likely the smaller pin count version of the DSP is used in these! the boards look a bit discolored around the power amp IC at the back, I would not rule these amps out as a suspect!

 

[2013 SE Hatch]

This only has a single tuner and only 4 channel, it is likely the smaller pin count version of the DSP is used in these! the boards look a bit discolored around the power amp IC at the back, I would not rule these amps out as a suspect!

Do you think a malfunctioning amp would cause the weird control issues? Like, I try to turn OFF the radio when it's acting up, but the radio says "NO! YOU CANNOT TURN ME OFF - MY JOB IS TO ANNOY YOU!" Many functions cause a reaction from the radio display, but they don't work as designated. "I try to think, but nuttin' happens" as Curly Howard would say.

Assuming the amp can be replaced, are they digitally keyed to the unit or can they just be dropped in?

Also, it's so annoying that the car is still bound to my phone with bluetooth even after the ACM unit is removed from the car!

 

[Ian123]

The amplifier does have diagnostic data fed to the micro via I2C bus, a fault in the amp or speaker outputs should be detected by the main micro, difficult to say what would happen if this data is corrupted?

 

[Ian123]

the power amplifier IC is not coded in any way, data sent from the power amp to the micro is for fault conditions and clip detecting (volume is reduced if clipping is detected). under a fault condition (defective power amp) it is difficult to say what the micro would do, potentially it could keep the micro from sleeping, I have see instances on a BMW where the radio was sending noise down the K BUS and was causing random things to happen (windows/roof would open, seats would move on their own..and drain the battery)

 

[2013 SE Hatch]

I wish I could determine if the amplifiers were bad or not. I suppose I could just buy both and replace them, but I don't know which P/N I should look for. There are similar amps, but I don't know if they'd work or not.

 

[Ian123]

pretty sure the amplifier IC is a TDA8595, you would need to check the version as one is power slug IC and there maybe 2 through hole versions with different lead forms? the IC on the side is a voltage regulator. From experience the ST power amp ICs were pretty much bomb proof where the Philips/NXP ICs I never held in high regards, the old CD6 6disk head units were notorious for the power amps dying for no apparent reason!

 

[2013 SE Hatch]

Haven't seen the TDA8595 before. I compared it to the TDF8546 datasheet I've looked at previously - same pinout. I know how to order the correct lead form, so I'm not worried about that.

There's also the smaller 17 pin amplifier - I don't know why there's 2 amplifiers and which is bad? Closest I've found for the 17 pin amp is TDA8561Q which isn't available.

If I knew of an ST equivalent, I'd order it seeing as the NXP parts are garbage.

 

[2013 SE Hatch]

I see ST has similar amps using Digikey to cross reference amps. TDA75610S-48X seems to have same pinout, there may be others. Still searching... TDA7802 is also similar, higher power.

 

[Ian123]

I was just saying the older units used ST power amps. only the ic at the back is an amplifier! the heatsink on these head units is not good BTW, they do run extremely hot at lower volume levels. not helped by sticking it between 2 connectors and reducing the surface area of the heatsink.

 

[Ian123]

tda8595 is 4 x 45w class AB amp

 

[2013 SE Hatch]

tda8595 is 4 x 45w class AB amp

I see that. TDA8595J is the correct ordering part number. Problem is, the only place that has them is that stupid broker Rochester Electronics. They have like a 50pc minimum. TDF8546J is also 45Wx4 class AB. There's a few pieces available out there. The pin names are identical, but I have no idea if it's otherwise compatible.

Of course tonight I had the idea that if I took just the circuit card out to the car, I could plug it in and do some poking around while it's live. No high voltages so I could basically touch anything on the card. So, I touched every ceramic cap, pushed on every large chip, tapped both the amp and the other vertical package coupled to the chassis, moved every electrolytic and ran my fingers across every solder joint on the card. Nothing. Then I twisted the card using the four corners, one way, then the other. Huh, I heard normal sound for a split second, then nothing. Hmmmm. Then I remembered that the order in which the connectors are plugged in seemed to matter sometimes. I powered down and opened door to ensure power was disabled (it's never removed from the larger connector.) This time I plugged the antenna in, then the larger connector on the opposite side of the card. I suspect that the middle connector is for the SYNC functions as I ran the radio for a week without it. So now the radio worked normally after I powered it on. How does a bad amp suddenly work? And why did I get a temporary sound when I flexed the card? I figure I disrupted one of the connections on the larger connector, though I can't be sure. I plugged in the middle connector and it continued to work. Hit the power button a few times, works. We'll see if it works again tomorrow. I'd love to solve the issue of what is putting the unit into "stupid" mode. It acts like it needs to have a voltage charge on something discharged. Would explain why removing and reinstalling the radio sometimes fixes it, and why me putting a power switch on the +12V on the large connector and switching if off when leaving the car also worked for a while.

 

[2013 SE Hatch]

More rambling. I went to the lake today and the radio worked fine all the way there, then crapped out while I was listening with engine off. At the same time I got a notice that the unit was shutting down due to low battery - which is impossible. I put my hand near the screen and felt a massive amount of heat rising there. Amp must be drawing a lot of current to dip the voltage that much. According to the plot below, it's dissipating maybe 40 Watts while I'm listening at maybe 5-10W/ch output (TDA8595)? That seems very inefficient. I think I'll order an amp and toss it in there, just out of pure curiosity.

 

[Ian123]

Class AB amps are inefficient at low/medium volumes, as noted these do run extremely hot, when these were being EMC tested i remember the guys handling them with gloves to prevent getting burnt, unfortunately there was no money in the pot to add a better heatsink. the TDF8546 may work as a drop in replacement? these are intended for stop start applications and may just have a lower working voltage to cope with dips?

 

[2013 SE Hatch]

I'm familiar with the biasing in AB amps and how it makes for low efficiency. I have a highly "A" biased high-end amp that dissipates 70W just idling. I took it out of my system and I think I'm saving a few $ per month - lol. Just surprised at the heat the thing puts out while cruising at low volume. The amp has thermal output limiting, and they show operation to like 160C, so this should not be the problem with these ICs unless they are degrading over time for some reason.

I ordered a TDF8546JV ("JV" is the latest orderable version, "J" was discontinued.) I like how they claim it's more efficient and also that it has 2V hysteresis (on <8V, off <6V) and that it can operate to 6V allowing it to not be interrupted during engine start.

I'd also like to note that my radio was acting up at the park, so I pulled it from it's hanging mount and set it down in the cavity area, then just picked it up and slammed it a few times. Sure enough, it started working and has operated flawlessly for several hours of driving time, which it hasn't done in a very long time. I honestly don't know what to think about this...

 

[2013 SE Hatch]

So, after slamming the radio, it worked without any issue for about 3 weeks, then popped during a long day of travel. Now we'll see if I can desolder the old amp and install the new one without incident. Wish me luck.

 

[2013 SE Hatch]

Well, that was quick ... I carefully desoldered the old amp, soldered in the new and put it back in the chassis, and it didn't make any sound. So, I spent a little time looking at the datasheets for the amps and noticed that the TDA8595 had a different I2C address than the TDF8546 that I got. Luckily I have every 0603 size resistor here and thought maybe changing the address to the same one as the TDA8595 (change 10k resistor to 30k) might work. It did! Sound came right on! So, I thought my troubles are over and fully assembled the radio, installed every screw like it hasn't had in a very long time, installed it and ... it played for about a minute and the fireworks started :/ It's not the amp. Oh, well. I remembered that removing the bottom of the chassis and resting it so it's tilted in the opposite direction as normal seems to keep it operating, so I did that.

You'll also notice the 3 wires I added - one it connected to +12, one to ground and one to the standby pin. I wanted to monitor the standby pin when the unit acts up. I wasn't able to see anything on a volt meter, so I installed a switch across the standby to ground so I can disable the amps when they start to pop. At least I won't have to listen to them next time it happens. So far installed the way you see above I haven't had an issue yet. We'll see...

 

[2013 SE Hatch]

The radio quickly stopped working at all. I then noticed that I can make the sound go on/off at will by flexing the PCB near the tuner module (silver shield covers it.) It's not in a part of the unit that I expected there to be an issue, yet I can "fix" the sound 100% of the time by flexing the PCB in that area. That explains why mounting it differently and rapping on the PCB fixes it for a time. I inspected every component in the area, including all of the components under the shield (which I removed.) I've tapped each component on the back side with the unit operating, but no luck. Now I've removed the top cover so I can tap the components in the area where the shield covered them. I am nearly certain it's a component in this area since I was able to make it fail by grabbing the PCB/shield with my finger/thumb and flexing the shield/PCB. If anybody else is technically adept, perhaps they can experiment in this area and see if they can figure it out.

 

[2013 SE Hatch]

So, I drive down the road and push on the circuit board where the arrow is drawn and the radio will start to work again. Seems to be related to the antenna input, but that may just be a coincidence.