[sailor]

2 quarts IS the proper amount for the MTX, it's automatic transmissions (std. type used before '12 in the Focus) that use more of a different fluid.

This "problem" is std. to any manual transmission, varies with temperature/fluids.

As long as it "shifts like silk & butter" when it warms up, you don't have a contributing problem like a clutch that won't fully release.

 

[Ikarbb]

Even after the fluid change, the problem is still there. It takes a good 20-30 min (40°f outside) of driving before things start to get smoother. Should I get a complete flush of the system and a cleaning. The old fluid was black/brown, now mixed with new fluid. I talked with a Ford service mechanic on the phone, and he thinks its my clutch disc...but he wants to inspect it in person this Friday. I hope this is nothing too major. Getting out of any gear is perfect and goes in smooth when moving. Its at a stop when the issue happens.
BTW, thank you for replying and trying to help me out with this problem.

 

[sailor]

So far you AREN'T describing a serious problem.

Do you want to spend a large sum on a new clutch to find no difference? New clutch etc. at a Dealer could run a couple grand & solve nothing.

At a stop, getting into gear will occasionally be notchy EVEN when the car is fully warmed up. If trying another gear first solves it then, you DON"T have a repairable problem.

Getting things to "mesh" at a stop can be a problem for a couple different reasons. Either the gears are spinning too fast due to "sticktion" from the thicker oil when cold, OR they could stop & not want to engage when the clutch is pressed for a bit before attempting to shift.

I see the second type most often when going into reverse, that gear doesn't have any synchro's to help it slide into gear & letting the clutch out again in neutral to spin the gears again is sometimes needed when trying another gear first doesn't work.

First gear usually works fine when you try second or third before going back to first. That will either stop the spinning, or move the gears just enough to let first engage - covering both possibilities depending on circumstances.


I've used trannies that are worse than this one, and others that don't exhibit this as much. It's ALWAYS a possibility, and I've gotten into habits that reduce the PITA of dealing with it when it happens. Selecting a gear when waiting at a light BEFORE I want to move is one of them, so as to not feel rushed if it doesn't cooperate immediately.


IF you just couldn't get it in gear at a stop AT ALL, then repairing the release mech. or replacing the clutch as required would be appropriate. Don't want to see you waste $ if it isn't necessary.

Cheers

 

[Ikarbb]

Putting the shifter into 2nd and then into 1st fixes the issue, but the shift will make a double click sound. One halfway through and then one at the end of every engagement. Two clicks to get in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and R. Its like a two-step with the shift knob. That happens when I push the clutch pedal to the floor. If I don't fully press the pedal, 0.5" to 1" inch space before max, the issue is gone. The Ford specialist mentioned for me to do that due to something with the syncros. Its warm out today, but the problem is still here to a degree.
I just want to find the core of the problem and fix it, if or before it becomes serious. I drive the car for delivering for work, and I'm trying to make it perfect and stress-free.
What are chances that its my slave cylinder that's maybe faulty in some way?

 

[sailor]

No chance the slave is faulty, it either works or spews fluid & quits.

Same bill for replacing that BTW, it's a doughnut around the tranny input shaft on these - NOT an external unit operating a lever like the old ones did. Step one - pull tranny, and as long as you're in there you might as well get a new clutch/flywheel assembly....

Worry about it enough, they'd be happy to sell you a new trans to go with that clutch.


When shift speeds aren't matched well you can sometimes feel the synchros then the gear as you shift. Partial engaged clutch by letting off a bit could put a load on it to change that feel is my guess for the different feel when rolling.

Shift to neutral, match speeds then shift to the next gear makes it the smoothest. Click, Click and it feels the best IMHO.

Push it into gear TOO slow & you'll get caught between synchro & engaged with it grinding, don't over think this too much.

(Last couple weeks have had a LOT of how to shift threads, guess everything comes in streaks)

 

[Mandroid]

She's tight ... what's wrong with that ...

Lululululul

 

[Mandroid]

I can't believe this thread is still going lol. It's a perfectly normal scenario for a manual transmission to do this when cold. I have owned 3 completely different manual cars and all of them did the same thing. This is a simple case of "fix the driver".

 

[LeoLind]

Have the same problem on a 2005. Only gear 5 allows engaging. It takes an hour of driving (in 50 deg F) to get rid of the stiffness. When the gear will not engage, stopping the engine immediately allows engaging it, proving that there is clutch entrailment form the flywheel. Why this disappears when the transmission is warm is the question. Is it that the entrailment diminishes, or it that the transmission's internal drags increases and becomes greater than the torque from the flywheel?
When I purchased this car used last hot summer, there was never an issue. I then replaced the transmission oil with the Ford recommended oil. The issue then started to appear but by then it was fall and the ambient temperature getting lower. So is it the climate that changed, or is it the new oil? Old oil had probably never been replaced (90000miles) and was darker and possibly somewhat thicker. Is the new oil thinner and makes for a looser transmisson that doesn't stop spinning when the clutch is released? But this does not tally with a warm transmission working fine.
Could there be air in the clutch hydraulics? When warm it could supply some more clutch movement. I will flush and bleed my clutch but don't have high hopes.
To say this is an acceptable situation is wrong. All my cars have been manuals and no others have had this problem, so the technology to avoid it exists. If all new manual Foci had this, there would have been a redesign and recall. I do understand that the solution has not been found, but that does not make it acceptable in my opinion.

 

[sailor]

5-spd duratec in a Wagon is in high demand by enthusiasts, want an automatic type? They're much easier to find, and yours would bring more $ from the right buyer.

Description is a bit difficult to follow, if it only engaged 5th it would be tough to drive it for an hour.

But more seriously, DO need a better description to help - since you're describing what is more like a dragging clutch than typical cold weather stiff shifting, yet much of the description DOES match stiffer when cold.

Oil warming up & getting thinner is what allows the gears to spin more freely, not being driven as much by the sticky oil and easier for the synchros to help with engagement at a stop.

This is usually NOT a major issue until temps approach freezing, and sometimes not until even colder depending on your habits. Tossing it in neutral at a light and trying to jam it in gear fast to take off again OFTEN doesn't work well, easing it in works better and if it doesn't go right in use another gear first WHILE holding the pedal down. Only takes a half sec. to row it into gear that way.

The harder you try to jam it, the tougher it'll be to shift at ALL times. Eventually you'll break the shift tower roll pin and it won't shift at all until that is replaced.


When it won't go into ANY gear at a stop (engine running) you have a dragging clutch problem. Something entirely separate from cold weather stiffness.

 

[LeoLind]

Sorry if my post was not clear.
Only 5th gear engages whith car stationary and cold. Once 5th has been engaged, I am then able to shift to 1st gear while not releasing clutch. I assume front end of transmission stops spinning while in 5th, allowing other gears to then be engaged, but I may not be understanding the transmission properly.
When 1st does not engage, with slight forward pressure on the gear stick, stopping the engine immediately lets gear slip in.
After an hour of driving (50 deg F), shifting becomes normal.

 

[felixthecat]

Sorry if my post was not clear.
Only 5th gear engages whith car stationary and cold. Once 5th has been engaged, I am then able to shift to 1st gear while not releasing clutch. I assume front end of transmission stops spinning while in 5th, allowing other gears to then be engaged, but I may not be understanding the transmission properly.
When 1st does not engage, with slight forward pressure on the gear stick, stopping the engine immediately lets gear slip in.
After an hour of driving (50 deg F), shifting becomes normal.

>>>How many miles are on your clutch? Its a hydraulic clutch= no adjustment. The only thing that changes is the wear of the clutch disc, just like a brake system. Have you swapped out the trans fluid?
IDK about the trans stops when in 5th part.

 

[LeoLind]

Original clutch 90k. New trans oil with Ford spec.

 

[sailor]

Odd

Normally any gear BUT first will slide in well enough when cold, with reverse often balky as well.

I usually use 4th from cold, as it's a straight back move without pushing to the side and it slides up & over into 1st easily. Higher the better for the purpose, so I suppose 5th would work - never tried it as it wasn't needed and it's an awkward shift by comparison. When stopped at a light and 1st doesn't go, usually use second since it already was to the left for first (straight move back).

Not going into first happens MOST in the cold, but it can happen randomly at any time. When cold it's usually from gears spinning too much, and extra sticktion from cold oil. When warm things can STOP spinning easily, and letting the clutch out again momentarily can help get in gear when at a stop. They don't always mesh perfectly when stopped. Row through all gears with engine off, and there's likely at least one that doesn't go in smoothly. Trying different ones even then moves things JUST enough to get into the prev. balky gear.

IDK why yours might be particularly balky, that usually happens ONLY when someone uses gear oil instead of the Synthetic MTF that's recommended. Even Mobil One in a 50W version works well in these, but regular gear oil is a no-no. I know you mentioned using the official Ford 'honey' that's not cheap, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Mine is only a PITA at times for 1st/rev when stinkin' cold, the rest of the time it shifts nicely - actually like the nice click click of shifting it. BUT I typically 'row' it into first at a stop without thinking about it as needed (use first & second until it goes in if needed) and it takes concentration for 'testing' after talking about it here to try direct to first until it gives me grief to make a note of.

Every time I say it seldom happens, then I'll see an odd balk into first at a stop. Only a PITA if I waited until the light already turned and want to hurry it, then might need to use 3rd or 4th before first as it balks at a quick 2-1 (grin). Never does it when not in a hurry, as the automatic move to 4th then back to first takes over when resistance is felt.

 

[sailor]

P.S. - you'd LOVE an 18 Wheeler, the clutch brake to stop things spinning is usually worn/out of adjustment to not work and it takes pedal down - wait - then grind easy against the gear until it slows enough to slide in.

Never take it out of gear at a stop, just get your clutch leg exercise, since it takes too long to select first again from a stop.

No synchros at all, shifting has to be by matched speeds for each change (double clutch).

 

[felixthecat]

That^^^Plus burbing the jakes help...

 

[sykozis]

Sounds like mine 2 years ago.... Could be a weak slave cylinder or a worn clutch. Mine kept getting worse until I replaced the clutch and slave cylinder.

 

[LeoLind]

That's interesting. Did you figure out what was actually wrong with the clutch: worn out, warped, oil soaked, dragging?

 

[Marv Hanna]

That will only work for automatic transmissions.