[Marde]

Definitely no sensors on the rail itself and nothing in that hose from rail to steel pipe...

That sounds odd, -or not correct. You should find "and see" the FRPS in the dead-middle of the fuel rail. Please (1) post a picture of your engine (attach a JPG image to this this thread) and (2) search for and look at online videos of 2005-06 Focus engines to see the fuel rail & the FRPS is in the middle of the rail.

Looking forward to figuring out this disconnect. -cheers!

 

[Trackhappy]

That sounds odd, -or not correct. You should find "and see" the FRPS in the dead-middle of the fuel rail. Please (1) post a picture of your engine (attach a JPG image to this this thread) and (2) search for and look at online videos of 2005-06 Focus engines to see the fuel rail & the FRPS is in the middle of the rail.

Looking forward to figuring out this disconnect. -cheers!

Check out my previous post with an Ebay ad. for the same engine. I won't be back at the car for a few weeks so can't take my own piccy. Trust me, there is no sensor on the rail as opposed to most Focus engines around the same vintage.

 

[Trackhappy]

Here is another shot of the setup:
2008 Ford Focus SE Sedan 2.0L DOHC 16V Duratec 4 Cylinder Engine Photo #62675162 | GTCarLot.com
Later engine (2008) but similar configuration to the one in question except the fuel line goes to a different place. Note the lack of fuel rail appendages.

 

[Marde]

Here is another shot of the setup:
2008 Ford Focus SE Sedan 2.0L DOHC 16V Duratec 4 Cylinder Engine Photo #62675162 | GTCarLot.com
Later engine (2008) but similar configuration to the one in question except the fuel line goes to a different place. Note the lack of fuel rail appendages.

Thank you for that picture. It helps, but now I am more confused, and I am more out of my 2004 league. You and I both need someone else to ID that 2006 fuel rail "with-out a FRPS" in order to help you further.

BTW I post here at FF for several reasons: (1) to help other people (2) to have fun (3) to engage with other FF nuts (4) I want to learn.

I am looking forward to learning about your/that fuel rail that does not have a FRPS "on the rail".

Someone with knowledge about that engine, that fuel rail, should post here soon. Gd luck & Cu later

 

[Trackhappy]

Thank you for that picture. It helps, but now I am more confused, and I am more out of my 2004 league. You and I both need someone else to ID that 2006 fuel rail "with-out a FRPS" in order to help you further.

BTW I post here at FF for several reasons: (1) to help other people (2) to have fun (3) to engage with other FF nuts (4) I want to learn.

I am looking forward to learning about your/that fuel rail that does not have a FRPS "on the rail".

Someone with knowledge about that engine, that fuel rail, should post here soon. Gd luck & Cu later

Thanks Marde. We will both learn something on this one. Maybe we had the beginnings of a new design over here in that year. I will certainly post whatever I learn. I am very keen to check the fuel pressure.
Cheers,
Glenn.[wrenchin]

 

[1turbofocus]

In AU there are a LOT of differances , here in the US some later Duratecs dont have a FRPS its in the back and some AU are return fuel systems , I do a lot of AU Tuning and there different , some US and AU strategys you cant datalog the fuel psi

Tom

 

[felixthecat]

Thank you for that picture. It helps, but now I am more confused, and I am more out of my 2004 league. You and I both need someone else to ID that 2006 fuel rail "with-out a FRPS" in order to help you further.

BTW I post here at FF for several reasons: (1) to help other people (2) to have fun (3) to engage with other FF nuts (4) I want to learn.

I am looking forward to learning about your/that fuel rail that does not have a FRPS "on the rail".

Someone with knowledge about that engine, that fuel rail, should post here soon. Gd luck & Cu later

Marty= The '03-'04 23's had the frps in the center of the fuel rail & the '05+ cars don't whether it is a 20 or a 23.

 

[Trackhappy]

So here's a question. Dad got a PCM from the wreckers. I did a quick swap but the throttle body obviously doesn't know where its end points are and it keeps buzzing trying to move past close. How do you do a reset for it to learn? He got the key and barrel with it so hopefully it will work after learning. Any ideas?

 

[Marde]

In AU there are a LOT of differances , here in the US some later Duratecs dont have a FRPS its in the back and some AU are return fuel systems , I do a lot of AU Tuning and there different , some US and AU strategys you cant datalog the fuel psi

Tom

Well that is clear as mud. So all bets are off and "who knows" or no one knows how that AU 2006 is configured (fuel system). A 2006 Duratec with a return fuel loop!!?? That is a big horse pill to swallow. I am not arguing with you, it is just so fricken hard to imagine.

Marty= The '03-'04 23's had the frps in the center of the fuel rail & the '05+ cars don't whether it is a 20 or a 23.

I am sure the North American FRPS moved off of the fuel rail at some point, but I am still guessing (1) what year (2) where did they move it to?

I was hired to help a friend (of a friend) after she ran her 2005 Focus through a street sign pole near a school. It made a big mess on the front of the car. The steel sign put a gash through the middle of the engine hood and busted the FRPS. I got a replacement FRPS from a 2006 or 2007 in a junk yard. These FRPS's were located in the middle of the fuel rail; 2.0 Duratec engines.

So here's a question. Dad got a PCM from the wreckers. I did a quick swap but the throttle body obviously doesn't know where its end points are and it keeps buzzing trying to move past close. How do you do a reset for it to learn? He got the key and barrel with it so hopefully it will work after learning. Any ideas?

Does that PCM have the same exact part number/s?

I do not know. But the typical DIY PCM reset here is just removing car battery power for 10 to 15 minutes + "short" the positive lead to ground to drain any residual power. On the next engine start, leave the gas pedal alone and let the car do its' own thing (learning) for 10 to 15 minutes. I have seen this process explained (better) by other FF's. -but that is it in a nutshell.

News Flash: I just caught something that you posted much earlier (post#5). Sorry I missed this before. I guess your 2006 is configured with a (1) electronic throttle body (fly-by-wire) (2) fly-by-wire gas pedal (3) "etc" which I guess is Electronic Throttle Control module?

This fly-by-wire configuration was not rolled out in the (USA) North American Focus until 2008. (iirc).

The DIY PCM reset process might be different for those people with a fly-by-wire throttle and/or your unique fuel system. TBD.

Lastly, adding to what Tom said, your car might not have a FRPS anywhere on the car. So this would explain why the fuel pressure (FP) is not seen in your scan tool data. This might also explain (but not excuse) why your Ford dealership failed to check FP. Funny-crazy-stupid that Ford would build a car without a FP Sensor and then NOT include a (test-port) shrader valve for testing FP. Maybe I am again "missing something" and someone can explain this to me. Since "she" paid them $900 previously, maybe you can call that Ford dealership service department and ask the service manager exactly how they would test FP in that 2006. Can't hurt to ask.

Maybe "they" built a special Tee test hose like mine?

 

[Trackhappy]

Thanks Marde.
Yep. Electronic throttle body. PCM has identical part number. It was sitting around for a week in a box so should have no memory. Dad has ordered a fuel pressure gauge set with various tees etc. Should know for sure when it arrives. It has a male Ford fuel connection tee to which the current hose will attach, then rubber hose to join the tee back onto the manifold pipe. Looks like it should work. Will report back as soon as I know the result.
Cheers,
Glenn.

 

[Marde]

^^ sounds good & good luck.

That sounds odd, -or not correct. You should find "and see" the FRPS in the dead-middle of the fuel rail...

Check out my previous post with an Ebay ad. for the same engine...

Whoops, yes. I did somehow miss your post at #20. Too many beers or a screw loose between my ears. I did read post #20 just now, a little too late but... yeah. Moving forward now. Cheers!

 

[Trackhappy]

Wellll, after the better part of a day fiddling, we have at least a fairly solid conclusion (but no fix).
So, fitting a fuel pressure gauge we have 45-ish PSI so no problem there. Removing the fuel rail and injectors and turning them upside down, we have a nice spray out of each (after cleaning them up). We know we have spark as it runs for a bit. Pulled the cam sensor and tested, all ok. Pulled the crank angle sensor and all ok. New ODBII reader gives the same "limp mode" error but nothing else.
So used the new reader and it can graph throttle body opening, which shows no movement if I move the pedal. I figured maybe it works like that until it starts... WRONG!. Put in the replacement PCU and I now get movement with pedal movement and no error. So Al and me now are pretty sure it is the PCU itself. Unfortunately it won't crank with the new PCU despite it coming with a matching key and module. The odd thing is the doors still lock and unlock with the old key not the new one, so we figure that there is a separate computer telling the computer not to start. I now know that the key has a very small chip embedded that identifies it to the sensor ring (and computer), but the lock part is a separate battery powered transmitter.
Other than back to the dealer, any ideas on how to get it to like the new PCU? (Have tried the battery discharge trick).

 

[Marde]

Yeah, I have one idea, and I hope you try this...

Let me first clear-up your names or acronyms verses what we typically use here.
You said PCU, and most of here use the acronym PCM, so PCU = PCM.
The crank angle sensor is also called the crank position sensor, and we call it the CKP here.

The old PCM did crank the engine; and the new PCM is not cranking the engine. Please take that new PCM out, and install the original PCM. If the old PCM does not crank the engine, I think I know why the engine is no longer cranking.

The mounting position of the CKP is EXTREMELY sensitive to the EXACT position it is mounted. There are reports & threads here where someone has removed and reinstalled (or removed and replaced) the CKP and the engine would no longer crank. You might have joined this special club when you removed and reinstalled your CKP. This is why I am asking you to try the old PCM, to see if it will crank the engine.

If the old PCM does not crank the engine, it is a safe assumption that the problem lies within the CKP sensor mounting position.

If the old PCM does crank the engine, you can thank your lucky stars, and the CKP mounting position is OK. Then, what is next? I am not sure. My first guess would be a PATS key problem, the (new) PATS key is not programmed to the (new) PCM, so PATS is immobilizing the car.

Take note of the PATS security light (on the dash) and watch "how it flashes" while attempting to start the engine, when using the old PCM verses the new PCM.

One other item: Yeah, the old key FOB might still open & close the door locks (via remote control) WHILE the new PCM is installed. The module that holds the magic codes to allow this function is not the PCM,... it is called the GEM.

Wishing you good luck, -cheers!

 

[Trackhappy]

Thanks, yep old one still cranks engine ok. Rang a different Ford dealer and apparently ONLY they have the tool to download the information from the old PCM that needs to be dumped into the replacement and that is precisely why it will not crank. He also said that there is yet another module he called something like the Body Control Module that is doing the locks and will signal the PCM as well. So much for DIY these days.
Thanks to everybody for their help.

 

[Marde]

Thanks, yep old one still cranks engine ok...

Great news.

...apparently ONLY they have the tool to download the information from the old PCM...

I have two or three thoughts about that. First, I did not know Ford did that "download" from one PCM and upload to the other PCM. I think the only data to download would be the PATS key codes (??) and this would allow you to use your old keys in the new PCM. However, when they program PATS keys into any new/used PCM, they can add your old PATS key without downloading from the old PCM. So, I am completely lost as to why they need to download from the old PCM. The download seems to be an unnecessary step.

Ford might claim they are the only ones who can program PATS keys into a PCM, but that is not entirely true. There are some locksmiths who do this AND there is also a home-brew method; using a PC and Forscan. More info about that in this link.

However, no one has reported doing this FORSCAN trick on a car configured like yours. Your 2006 is configured mostly like the 2008 in North America (NA). BTW, is your PCM located in the engine bay? -or inside the car cabin? The PCM moved from the cabin into the engine bay in 2008 -for NA cars.

It is my belief that the FORSCAN trick works on NA 2000-2007. It may or may not work on newer cars, such as your AU 2006.

...He also said that there is yet another module he called something like the Body Control Module...

Yes, the GEM morphed into the BCM in 2008, -again for NA cars. Your AU 2006 has a BCM (not a GEM) sorry that I said GEM. The GEM and BCM are functionally nearly identical; but I am also unaware of any of the functional differences.

 

[Marde]

Also... when I said program PATS keys, I was talking about the sticky spot where someone has a PCM with One or Zero PATS keys currently programmed.

I was not talking about the very easy situation of adding a 3rd PATS key when you already have 2 functional PATS keys on-hand.

 

[Trackhappy]

My impression was that they download some kind of engine training data that was embedded in the factory for each car, as well as the VIN. I read somewhere on the net they can use standard factory data for a new one if needs be, but maybe the engine won't be as efficient?? Maybe it can re-learn over time?? It would indeed seem that the 2006 over here is the model you see around 2008 over there. PCM is in the engine bay beside the battery.
I think this is separate to the PATS data for the security side of things, which it seems some third parties can now program. I will look at FORSCAN, but it looks like I need to by the extended license which may or may not do what I need.
I have to shout out Pacific Ford at Maroochydore, who were fantastic when I phoned them yesterday. He agreed that it was poor service by the other dealer and offered to do the transfer for their minimum charge. No on-site option though, so cost to get the vehicle there.

Cheers,
Glenn.

 

[Marde]

My impression was that they download some kind of engine training data that was embedded in the factory for each car,...

I know little or nothing about this subject, but that will not stop me from making a few comments anyway.

Outside of the VIN, and "learned and adjusted" engine operational parameters, there is nothing unique to your old verses new PCM. There is nothing they need from the old PCM. There is a PCM "code" which identifies the PCM firmware; usually a sticker in the car door jam. This code is usually shared (is the same) by all (or most) cars built for a region & through-out the model year. This PCM code will sometimes also be shared in a model year older or newer; but never when the model crosses the Focus generation gaps.

VIN stored inside the PCM? That makes sense, but it did not cross my mind previously. I will assume that FORSCAN can also edit that parameter.

AFAIK the "engine training data" is relearned on every car after the car battery is removed/disconnected... for x-amount of minutes; about 15 to 20, and/or positive cable is shorted to ground for a faster (residual) power drain.

...I will look at FORSCAN, but it looks like I need to by the extended license which may or may not do what I need...

I think there is a free for 30-days extended licence.

...offered to do the transfer for their minimum charge...

That sounds like a winner. Ask them for a price quote before you tow the car there.

 

[1turbofocus]

More then likely with the new PCM you have --------- when you turn the key on where the odometer is

You cant just change PCM it must be reprogrammed by Ford and you need to make sure you have the same PCM part number as the old one as well

Tom

 

[Marde]

...You cant just change PCM it must be reprogrammed by Ford and you need to make sure you have the same PCM part number as the old one as well...

The OP (Glenn) previously confirmed the new (used, found at junkyard) PCM has the same part number as the original.

I'm curious as to why you said "must be programmed by Ford". Any chance you could please explain this?

PCM replacement threads are rare, but I coulda swore that the only common hick-up was PATS key programming? -when the new PCM has keys missing or matching PATS keys.

Example: So, if my neighbor & I have matching cars, he owns VINx0500 and I own VINx0501 of a 2004 Focus, he and I can or can't swap PCM's, keys, and key cylinders?

More then likely with the new PCM you have --------- when you turn the key on where the odometer is ...

You and I have both been involved in a few "odometer dashes" threads here at FF. So, we both know how/when that typically happens. Why do you think a new PCM would "more than likely" cause dashes?

TIA for your time and expertise in this set of questions.