[besthaticouldo]

ok...

the fact still remains that i have YET to see an SPI over 300 in either catagory with stock internals.

i beleive that MAYBE its possible. buts its easier and cheaper to do it on an SVT.

cams are like girls...two is better then one.

 

[focusin]

ok...

the fact still remains that i have YET to see an SPI over 300 in either catagory with stock internals.

i beleive that MAYBE its possible. buts its easier and cheaper to do it on an SVT.

cams are like girls...two is better then one.

I agree with the first and last statements but the second I dont know, Jeff put his turbo kit together for 250 bucks and is not running any add ons other than the turbo that I'm aware of (he will need to clear that up) I think with a little more work on such things like exhaust, maybe a P&P and a few other things that don't involve the internals and put it in the final price of the car the escort is a WAY cheaper option.

 

[Klondike]

^depends 2 ugly ones < a hot one lol

but ill agree dohc is a better starter in the focus case cuz im not familiar with other company engines

but for what you can do with the svt engine its mighty impressive!
duratec is the new player and doesnt have one the zetec engine got, a overhaul by cossie, but im sure someone will eventually beef up a 2.3 with all cosworth parts and boost it, and itll be over 300whp

 

[jeffescortlx]

It comes down to how much you can spend and what you want out of it.

If I had to choose between a NA Zetec vs. a Turbo SPI, I'd go with the Turbo SPI.

I'm not saying that because I have turbo SPI's, I'm saying that becaus I've had a Zetec. I swapped a Zx2 Zetec in a 2nd gen Escort a couple years ago. I Even did it for under 400 including a stage one Spec and header. Even with a light weight car and 5 speed, were still talking about a slow car. I sold it.

Let's be realistic here, even with a magical DOHC motor swap, were only looking at a 15 second car on a good day. I'd rather spend that time and money for a good turbo system on the existing SPI.

 

[loudfocus01]

you guys cant get that from bolt ons...loudfocus is under 100 with all bolt ons and toms tune...thats horrendous.

Nice of you to mention me, but lets get a few things straight here. First off, I don't have ALL the bolt ons for the spi. There is still a lot more out there that I dont have. To add to that...I have an automatic tranny which puts a big hurtin' on my numbers. I was also having a few maintinence issues when I dyno tuned that have been taken care of since, so that robbed me of some power. But anyway, after I get out of college and get a real job I'm going to be starting my turbo spi build. I'm going all out with forged internals, and manual tranny swap, and a custom turbo kit. I'm going to be shooting for over 300whp. I just might be the first one to show you all that it can be done with an spi.[thumb]

 

[Klondike]

^i know youll do it up right jed, its all you man, i know the spi is capable of 300whp

 

[SkaAddict]

If I had to choose between a NA Zetec vs. a Turbo SPI, I'd go with the Turbo SPI.

That's a bit of a no-brainer...pretty much any turbo engine is going to result in better numbers than a N/A engine with the same displacement. I don't think anyone would say that a bone stock Zetec could beat a turbo SPI just because it has DOHC and four valves per cylinder. My point has been that the Zetec (or Duratec, for that matter) is a better platform to start building from because it has DOHC and twice as many valves. Give me a choice between a turbo SPI and a turbo Zetec/Duratec and I'll take the Zetec/Duratec any day of the week.

 

[Tetsuo]

ok...

the fact still remains that i have YET to see an SPI over 300 in either catagory with stock internals.

i beleive that MAYBE its possible. buts its easier and cheaper to do it on an SVT.

cams are like girls...two is better then one.

thats because we can't you think that the Zetec would be doing any better than the SPI if it had the same level of after-market support? thats the real issue i'm sure and SPI can do alot, on stock internals, simply look at jeff, he's almost there, and he's not intercooled, granted alot of that is the tune, but hey it works... if jeff did a bit more he'd probably be able to top 300, and that with standing the fact that he already can probably can hand most anybody on here there asses...

 

[Klondike]

^dont forget he was running stock exhaust, so im sure he woulda pulled a few more ponies when it was all free flowing

 

[besthaticouldo]

Nice of you to mention me, but lets get a few things straight here. First off, I don't have ALL the bolt ons for the spi. There is still a lot more out there that I dont have. To add to that...I have an automatic tranny which puts a big hurtin' on my numbers. I was also having a few maintinence issues when I dyno tuned that have been taken care of since, so that robbed me of some power. But anyway, after I get out of college and get a real job I'm going to be starting my turbo spi build. I'm going all out with forged internals, and manual tranny swap, and a custom turbo kit. I'm going to be shooting for over 300whp. I just might be the first one to show you all that it can be done with an spi.[thumb]

i didnt mean to poke fun man.

but under 100hp with all that work is kinda bad. youve said it in other threads.

yes maybe 300 is possible. but you will need more boost and more tuning then a dohc car would.

its simple math...the dohc car will have more potential then a sohc car. im not saying the spi is a bad motor. because i know a guy down here that has an SPI and that thing has never had a problem. in 5 years hes only replaced a battery and i think a started once. so its nothing major. but...his car is a dog!


here is a question for you SPI people...

if you had 3k to put into an SPI or a SVT which one do you think would make more power? that answer is simple...the SVT would. you will simply have to spend more on an SPI to make power...and to the people that say o Jeff did it for like 500 or whatever...well great. but i dont trust junkyard turbo parts. i know what it takes to build a 400+whp 4cyl car, my saturn dialed in at just over that on low boost setting. all the parts were new and everything was top of the line. when it comes to turbo parts you dont skimp. thats just my input.

the spi simply cannot make the power in stock form that an SVT can. it isnt do able...maybe because your car weighs 2000lbs and has more torque you will be quicker...but im talking just power.

and i would love to see Jeff run against a powerworked, procharged, JRSC, or turboed SVT on the freeway where torque is less of a factor and see what happens...

as sad as it is ive seen an 01 gt with intake and exhaust lose to a JRSC BBK svt with a bunch of supporting mods from a dig...

im not saying jeffs numbers arent great, because they surely are. id love to have more torque then horsepower. but the fact still remains...svts > spis. there is a reason the spi is in the base model and the SVT is in the top of the line...ford is dumb but come on...saying your SPI is on target with an SVT is asinine...

 

[SkaAddict]

Another point I'd like to make is that having a significantly higher torque number doesn't mean the car is considerably faster...if that was the case then the VW TDI models would be considered fast cars. While I'm sure 200/260 is no slouch, its not as fast as a car would be that had, say 250 HP/250 TQ. Torque is how much power the engine generates, and HP is a measure of work over time...so if you have a significantly higher torque number then your engine isn't using its power efficiently. Far more torque than HP would be impressive if we were talking about trucks and towing, but in this context its basically the reverse of Hondas' engines having high HP numbers but significantly less torque.

And I'll agree with the above comments. You SPI guys need to face facts that while the SPI isn't a bad engine, to compare it with the SVT Zetec flies in the face of decades of automotive engineering.

 

[heelflip101]

Another point I'd like to make is that having a significantly higher torque number doesn't mean the car is considerably faster...if that was the case then the VW TDI models would be considered fast cars. While I'm sure 200/260 is no slouch, its not as fast as a car would be that had, say 250 HP/250 TQ. Torque is how much power the engine generates, and HP is a measure of work over time...so if you have a significantly higher torque number then your engine isn't using its power efficiently. Far more torque than HP would be impressive if we were talking about trucks and towing, but in this context its basically the reverse of Hondas' engines having high HP numbers but significantly less torque.

And I'll agree with the above comments. You SPI guys need to face facts that while the SPI isn't a bad engine, to compare it with the SVT Zetec flies in the face of decades of automotive engineering.

exactly

 

[Klondike]

i hope jeff chimes in here cuz a guy in my town was building up his spi and was expected to be pushing over 300whp but i cant remember if he ever had it dynoed, i went to his house a while back and looked like it was almost all done

 

[besthaticouldo]

ok...300 on stock internals? or did he upgrade those? cuz there are many close or at 300 on an SVT with stock internals...

and how many PSI was he pushing?

 

[Klondike]

im not to sure, i think he was stock internals, psi he was pshing, not to sure on that either i know it has to be more then what a svt can do for the fact the svt starts out with about 100 hp more, im guessing it was 16psi?

 

[besthaticouldo]

hm...any pics or videos or dynos or anything?

 

[jeffescortlx]

the dohc car will have more potential then a sohc car.

Every thing else being equal, yes I agree with you 100%. But we cant assume just because the head of the motor has two cams in it, that automaticly means the ringlands and rods are stronger. But I allready know the SVT has forged internals and the SPI has cast, so you dont need to remind me.

if you had 3k to put into an SPI or a SVT which one do you think would make more power?...

Yes a SVT will have more power. But buying and swapping in a SVT and getting it boosted for a total of $3000 is unrealalistic.

and i would love to see Jeff run against a powerworked, procharged, JRSC, or turboed SVT on the freeway where torque is less of a factor and see what happens...

You make it sound like tourq is useless once the car is moving. It does'nt work that way. It just means I make my peak power at a lower RPM. My power band start at 3500 RPM's instead of 4500-5000 's or what ever it might be. I can still use my low end tourq for accelerating.

but the fact still remains...svts > spis.

I'm not saying the SPI is better then a SVT, and I dont think any one else did either.

Turboing the SPI (CVH) is'nt a rare uncharted territory, if you want to see the potential of the single camer, look over to the UK, Ford sold ton's of Escort RS turbo's. There's a huge tuning crowd for them there.

 

[loudfocus01]

I never said the spi was better than the svt either.......not sure where u got that from? And stop saying I dont have 100hp, because I'm well over that in crank hp. Its whp thats under 100. I dont care if thats what u meant either, I just dont like you saying it. Also, who cares about how much power you can make on stock internals w/ and engine. Having a built engine is so much better for turbo anyway, and if its too expensive for you......sucks for u. I'll be able to afford it, and I'll be showing you all what an spi can do.

 

[besthaticouldo]

ok you do that and ill make more power on stock internals...

and dude cool your damn jets. i said you had under 100whp. not offense was meant by it. i said i didnt mean anything by it you were just used as an example. relax. god damn.

 

[SkaAddict]

Having a built engine is so much better for turbo anyway, and if its too expensive for you......sucks for u.

Uh...what exactly do you think the SVT Zetec is if not a built engine? Sure it doesn't have forged pistons, but as has been pointed out, the stock pistons are good to just shy of 400 WHP. Forged rods and factory-installed oil squirters aren't anything to laugh at...