not starting as in not cranking, or just not igniting? if its cranking but not igniting, the starter will be an exercise in changing the starter.

what is p0125?

when cold, most PCM start in open loop mode. the O2 sensor is ignored. so your ambient air temp, air flow rate, engine time, tps, and crank sensors will be employed.

50deg. isn't really that cold. possible mechanical issue? like intake manfold starting to leak? opens up below 50? its a thought anyway.

 

Arlenn, this is a crank no-start. The car will start after an extending period of cranking. (minutes, not seconds)

 

Posted via FF MobileYou`ve already replaced the obvious parts that sense temperature so that throws out the simple guesses... Just for giggles, when you get to the car, try the odo diagnostic trick to see what temp the car THINKS it`s at, just to see if the computer is seeing a reading that makes sense..... (1 way to double check the sensor)

 

Doing the dash board trick, which i learned here, the coolant sensor was within 2 degrees of the outdoor air temp with the car cold.

Also, my scan tool can read the coolant temp, but i have not done that with the car cold.

 

Start up is simple. Fuel injectors squirt fuel, a start up charge, you crank to get compression and spark.

These cars have problems with the coil pigtail. You should inspect it carefully, but I would think that would show other signs while the car was running- like missing. I would never have suggested an MAF myself because that has nothing to do with start up.


P0125 - Insufficient Coolant Temperature For Closed Loop Fuel Control Indicates the ECT or CHT sensor has not achieved the required temperature level to enter closed loop operating conditions within a specified amount of time after starting engine. Insufficient warm up time
Low engine coolant level
Leaking or stuck open thermostat
Malfunctioning ECT sensor
Malfunctioning CHT sensor
Refer to Thermostat Monitor in Section 1, Description and Operation, for system information.

This code should only show up after the engine has started. Either way the CHT has no bearing on starting the engine. Do you have an EFI relay? I haven't worked on an older Foci with the SOHC engine, but it is possible that your relay might stick. Now, what I would do is swap the relay with another relay that is the same type. There's no sense in spending money on it, it's just a theory.

You can also have her check to see if the fuel pump is doing it's job. She should be able to hear the fuel pump prime the system when the key is turned to ON. There is no FPR, only a fuel sensor. I don't know how to diagnose a fuel sensor properly.

 

I'll be back with more later but don't spend any more money on it unless you've tested sufficiently to find a bad part.

 

So far thanks for helpful thoughts, I wish the car was available to me but it's not, it's 2 hours away.

So, I have one question now, what is the "coil pigtail"? Are we talking the power plug into the coil?

My next plan of attack is drive up there over the weekend, replace the fuel pressure sensor on the fuel rail, check all the vacuum lines, paying extra attention to the PCV valve line, and check that thing too. And check the existing/and add a motor to chassis ground lead.

As far as a fuel pump relay go's, I don't think there is one, but the fuel pump driver module is something I'd like to find. But checking the box where those things are may yield some results. And I should ohm any fuses marked "fuel" And for giggles, pull the trim off the inertia switch and just poke around in there looking for chafes, corrosion or just sprinkle some pixie dust in there.

Use my scan tool and read the coolant temp, and wish like hell it also gives me the fuel pressure sensed.

Try to start the car cold, listen for the fuel pump first, listen to the sound of the starter and put a amp meter on the starter, and volt meter across the battery.

Once it's running, spray some carb cleaner around the intake and see if I have any air leaks there.

 

Just bypass the inertia switch with a paperclip- it's only 2 pins. It likely isn't that, but if it is, or some fuel problem other than the fuel sensor- you won't hear the fuel pump prime. As far as I know the fuel system will not shoot fuel until you turn the key to START. So you can do that, then pull a spark plug to see if you smell fuel- after you've heard the pump prime, of course.

Now, another thing I didn't think of until this morning- I'm sick, 101 deg, worked in the rain 50' off the ground yesterday for 12 hrs.

Anyway, enough bitching, I didn't think of the old Ford loose spark plug. You have an SPI engine Focus, which IMO should be sold ASAP anyway, but on some of my old Fords I used to have a cold start problem that was due to the spark plug loosening slightly over time- or just simply loose threads. If you have this problem, you'll see funky ass thick oil crud caked to the side of the spark plug, and down in the spark plug tube. Of course you want to be sure this is not from a valve cover gasket first- usually you can tell by the spark plug. It will be covered in black deposits, and not look like the others.

That's an option, but if all your spark plugs look the same- forget it, and move on.

The fuel pump controller should be under the bottom rear seat. Remove the 2 bolts, and pull it up, actually if those seats are designed to lay flat then the bottom seat should fold up against the front seats without removing anything. If you have an AT, then the control module for that will be on the driver's side IIRC, and the one on the passenger side is the fuel pump controller. Make sure that all the grounds are grounded down there.

 

Oh, here's another one- check the heat range of your plug to make sure it matches with what is supposed to be in SPI engines. We used to have some problems with people getting the wrong plug since both engines were 2.0 4 cyls. Sometimes parts guys aren't alert enough to catch that. The DOHC plug would be a colder plug, and that might contribute to your PO125 if the plug is sucking too much heat off the combustion chamber. You'd see black, wet fouling on the plugs, IIRC. Check a plug diagnostic chart, or compare recommended plugs with our recommendations. If you have Bosch plugs, I recommend you put those in the trash.

 

Looks like I have a fix!!

Yesterday I got a window to work on the car, I cleaned and added grounds and replaced the fuel pressure sensor. I used the TSB pasted below, even though I had none of the other issues in the TSB.

I added a ground wire from the FUEL PUMP DRIVER MODULE hold down screw to the one of the seatbelt anchors. I could not find G54 anywhere in the area I had the carpet up. At G41/56, I cleaned the terminal and screw and added a second ground from the ground screw to the screw that mounts the inertia switch. At G1 I removed the 2 ground under the air box and cleaned and coated with no-ox. I would have loved an Ah-Ha moment, but the car started right up first shot this morning, which is a historic event.

16226 2000-2002 FOCUS - INTERMITTENT ERRATIC GAUGE SWEEP, CRANK NO START, HARD START, AND VARIOUS OTHER ELECTRICAL AND/OR DRIVEABILITY
CONDITIONS
SOME 2000-2002 FOCUS MAY EXHIBIT A GROUND RELATED CONDITION WITH INTERMITTENT ERRATIC GAUGE SWEEP, CRANK NO START, HARD START,
AND VARIOUS OTHER ELECTRICAL AND/OR DRIVEABILITY CONDITIONS. INSPECT GROUNDS G1/G24/G41/G54 AND G56 FOR LOOSENESS OR CORROSION.
ALSO, CHECK FOR A VOLTAGE DROP ACROSS THE NEGATIVE BATTERY CABLE TO BOTH THE ENGINE BLOCK AND CHASSIS. G1 IS LOCATED UNDERNEATH
THE AIR CLEANER, G24 IS LOCATED ON THE RIGHT HAND 'A' PILLAR (WIRING SCHEMATIC SECTION 700-06-00- 29 OR 30). G41 AND G56 ARE
LOCATED AT THE FRONT RIGHT SIDE KICK PANEL INSIDE THE VEHICLE AND G54 IS LOCATED AT THE FUEL PUMP DRIVER MODULE RIGHT REAR UNDER THE SEAT.
EFFECTIVE DATE: 09/12/2002

 

Yesterday I got a window to work on the car, I cleaned and added grounds and replaced the fuel pressure sensor. I used the TSB pasted below, even though I had none of the other issues in the TSB.

I added a ground wire from the FUEL PUMP DRIVER MODULE hold down screw to the one of the seatbelt anchors. I could not find G54 anywhere in the area I had the carpet up. At G41/56, I cleaned the terminal and screw and added a second ground from the ground screw to the screw that mounts the inertia switch. At G1 I removed the 2 ground under the air box and cleaned and coated with no-ox. I would have loved an Ah-Ha moment, but the car started right up first shot this morning, which is a historic event.

16226 2000-2002 FOCUS - INTERMITTENT ERRATIC GAUGE SWEEP, CRANK NO START, HARD START, AND VARIOUS OTHER ELECTRICAL AND/OR DRIVEABILITY
CONDITIONS
SOME 2000-2002 FOCUS MAY EXHIBIT A GROUND RELATED CONDITION WITH INTERMITTENT ERRATIC GAUGE SWEEP, CRANK NO START, HARD START,
AND VARIOUS OTHER ELECTRICAL AND/OR DRIVEABILITY CONDITIONS. INSPECT GROUNDS G1/G24/G41/G54 AND G56 FOR LOOSENESS OR CORROSION.
ALSO, CHECK FOR A VOLTAGE DROP ACROSS THE NEGATIVE BATTERY CABLE TO BOTH THE ENGINE BLOCK AND CHASSIS. G1 IS LOCATED UNDERNEATH
THE AIR CLEANER, G24 IS LOCATED ON THE RIGHT HAND 'A' PILLAR (WIRING SCHEMATIC SECTION 700-06-00- 29 OR 30). G41 AND G56 ARE
LOCATED AT THE FRONT RIGHT SIDE KICK PANEL INSIDE THE VEHICLE AND G54 IS LOCATED AT THE FUEL PUMP DRIVER MODULE RIGHT REAR UNDER THE SEAT.
EFFECTIVE DATE: 09/12/2002

WOW! My daughters 02 focus se has the same EXACT problem. She must toggle the ignition many times until she hears the "clunk and hum" of the fuel pump primer. Only then will the car start. I was just about to bite the bullet and make an appointment at the dealership. Was your "added grounding" method a permanent fix? If so I will give that a try! I will let you know how I make out. p.s. I'm a new member of focus fanatics.... its very cool!

 

Yes, this is a fix for this, the fuel pump driver module (under the rear seat) is what puts the voltage on the fuel pump based on the input from the fuel pressure sensor on the fuel injector rail, which tells the PCM what the pressure is and the PCM output signal to the fuel pump module is based on fuel pressure, car speed and what ever else. At start up it puts 12 volts to the pump for 1 second when you pass run to start with the key to prime the system. So if the ground is iffy, the module puts the 12 volts out, but only 7 make it back to ground, you never prime the system fully.

I had no other symptoms describe in the TSB, just a VERY hard start in weather below 60 degrees.

Good Luck, let me know how you make out..

 

I only had limited time to mess with it. So far I re-grounded the primer module and cleaned and tightened those two grounds under the air box. I wasn't sure how to ground the inersia switch and I couldn't find the A piller ground. Problem not solved yet. Is it possible that the primer module ITSELF is faulty? I own a 04 zxw, and was thinking IF the module is identicle, then I could switch it out and give that a try. Anyway, I won't have access to the vehicle again till thanksgiving. Any input would be appriciated!

 

Cold soaked engine

I don't own a Ford, but I do own a used Pontiac and I do live in Alaska. I just wanted to say this: This would be my first time owning a vehicle AND the first time I am having trouble starting my car after it's been sitting in fourty below zero Fehrenheit ( -40*F ) temperatures. I have replaced my starter and battery and it still wouldn't start. My friend and I are trying to figure out what's wrong with the car. I tell my coworker about it and she said, "It won't start because it's been cold soaked." So, here I am trying to figure out what's wrong with my car by googling 'cold soaked engine.' At the very top is an article dated Nov 18, 1985 called, Cold Soaking -Alaska Science Forum. It sure was an interesting article to read and I think I'll try it out!

P.S. I don't know anything about cars, but I guess I'm slowly learning!

 

Hey, it's me again. I've pretty much given up on a diy fix. I've done all the grounding stuff and even switched out the control modual (the one under the rear seat) all for not. We have discovered that by turning the key to accesory and leaving it for about five min. the car starts every time. I was about to make an appointment at the dealer for a diagnostic but the dealer closed down. Guess I (i mean my daughter) will just continue this routine till we get time to bring it in, or until the weather gets warmer whichever comes first! In the mean time I will look into that "pigtail" thing.good luck to all and thanks for the input.

 

I bit the bullet and got a diagnostic from the dealer ($80.00). They said the the fuel pump was shot. I replaced the pump, but nothing changed ($500.00). I explained everything to another local mechanic and agreed to let him look at it. He found the problem to be a bad relay!! All that time and expense for a ten dollar part! Until then, no one had even mentioned the word relay, so I didn't even know one existed! Anyway, I hope this helps someone avoid what i went through.