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Brake line threads

14K views 16 replies 4 participants last post by  jbear  
#1 ·
So as best I can find out, a Focus SE wagon needs (for the rear lines that go into the wheel cylinder) 3/16 diam. line, at least 12 inches long, though IMO it should be more like 14, but they don't seem to make those in ready-made) bubble flare, M10 X 1.0 .

The parts store didn't have one marked M10 X 1.0, the parts person assured me it was the same. I don't remember what it said, now, and the tags are gone, mangled when bending the line to fit.

It threaded into the wheel cylinder, but it leaks.

They don't seem to have any in the nearest town that are the exact specifications. Napa may have, but I can't tell on the website because it sucks. I can call them tomorrow and ask.

I looked back over what I found online, I'm pretty sure this is the same as I got. It's a little hard to see, it says 4.77mm X 30.5. Am I correct in thinking it's the wrong thread? Close, but not quite right?
Image
 
#2 ·
If it screws in without issue, you've got the right thread and the problem was at the seal of the flare with the cylinder.

That metric conversion is for the tubing diameter/length, I can't read any of the fine print about thread.
 
#3 ·
Like not having the end in quite strait or something? I don't recall ever seeing seals or gaskets or anything on a wheel cylinder. I still have another brake line, I can swap it out and see if it seals properly.

I think I'll wait until I open up the passenger side, make sure I don't need it over there first.
 
#4 ·
It clearly says metric thread. The 4.77mm is 3/16", the 30.5 CENTIMETER is the length, one inch = 2.54 centimeters, work the equation out and it should hit the 12 inch length there.

The end of the two fittings that backs up the flare looks incorrect there and why it leaked? The inner end of the fitting should have the same 45 degree angle the wheel cylinder does but the female to the male of it. Flare fitting ends generally do not have that step sticking out past the threads there. I'd be looking close at that. I could be full of it of course, I could tell if I had it in hand instantly but the web, you know.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Those look right. Is the fitting too short?
The Focus wheel cylinders should be M10x1.0 ISO Bubble Flare, which is what those are. The Ford flare nuts are usually on the long side, but they usually don't thread in all the way and I've used short flare nuts on my Mustang lines; as long as the end bottoms out before the threads do, it should work.
One thing it could be is if 12" is just so much too short that the line is pulling tight and making it feel like the fitting is tight, when it isn't. How much muscle did you put into tightening the flare nut?

EDIT: Assuming that you did actually get the line you show in the picture. Double check that the ends are actually bubble flare and not a double-flare type. I usually think of Metric as being simpler (once you know the ins and outs) but brake lines/pipe and tubing in the Euro and Japanese forms of Metric are one huge exception.
 
#6 ·
Ok, it is the right line, the problem was I'd bent a little too close to the end, it wasn't seating right. The original line, after I cut it off measured a hair over 13 1/2". The replacement is only 12". I finally got it bent so it works and doesn't leak, but I can't get the clip on that holds the connection between the metal line and the rubber one. It's just too short. I'll have to put something in there to keep the line from rubbing on the hard metal edge. Piece of plastic tubing or some such. Come to think of it, I have just the thing.
 
#7 ·
Clip is important, otherwise the line will bend every time the suspension moves and that can potentially fatigue it to the breaking point eventually.

Stock bends aren't important, as long as the line doesn't interfere with anything.

Understand your leakage issue, getting it to fit cleanly & correctly plus the obvious total clean surfaces are the main issues other than smooth surfaces of the metal connections. 'Smear' of the metal when pressed in place can't account for much of a nick or imperfection.
 
#8 ·
X2. That line fitting issue from way back in my hard drive, I seem to remember a line that did NOT have the proper angle inside the end and it never would work right. Could be a fitting that just never got fully machined too.

If the fitting does not line in dead straight after bending, the threads will not pull it the rest of the way, it then leaks as the angle kissing is slightly off center. The metal 'smear' thing mentioned.
 
#9 ·
Doesn't seem to be leaking anymore, but I'll be checking it several more times just to make sure.

And it looks like I'll be trying to bend that line just a tad more to try to get the clip back on. I sure don't want it bending and breaking later. I'll have to take it loose from the rubber line again.

I don't know why they don't make any of the pre-flared lines w/fittings in more lengths. They make 8", 12", then it jumps up to 20", and a bunch of much longer ones. A 14" would be perfect, but they don't make them, or I can't find them, anyway. If I ever have to do this again I'll get a 20", and make extra bends to get the excess out of the way. If the passenger side is as screwed up as the driver's side was, that'll be in a day or two, after I finish the front end. Ah, but I'll have a new small set of sockets with the half-size sockets. I could maybe take off the backing plate instead, to access the problem spots.
 
#10 ·
That's why I have a flaring tool and 25' coil of copper-nickel tubing.
About 1/3 of the time I "could" reuse the fittings if I were being thrifty, but seeing as I buy them in bulk I NEVER do...especially on someone else's car (because THEIR "only slightly rounded" fitting will be MY problem in a couple years).
Seriously, if you think you'll be doing lines again, don't sit and think about how to make a stock length work. Just spend a few bucks in tools and make it exact.
Copper-nickel flares easily, even with the dime-store wingnut flaring tools (as long as you remember to flare and de-burr the tubing, as you should always be doing anyway).
Think how short this topic would have been if you were willing to just snap the line off and put a socket on the brake line fitting at the wheel cylinder before you even crawled under the car? :D I replace brake lines now because it's easier than trying to save them.
 
#11 ·
Minor changes in bends can be made without detaching the line form the hose - often even rather major ones.

Stock there are even places on many vehicles where lines make coils to be less sensitive to vibration/movement so curving excess around to shorten a line between fixed points is not an issue at all.

Steel brake line tubing in bulk is inexpensive, cost to use is primarily in the flare tools as mentioned. Re-use of fittings can be necessary when generics don't fit the vehicle/part involved well.

I'd avoid any other type tubing as it isn't legal for hwy. use. The Wolf has experience/access to other materials I assume from his job description elsewhere, and knows what he can use that is functional for his purposes. Many of us have done similar, but it's not a good place for experiment.
 
#12 ·
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...opper-brake-line-tubing-coil-3-16-x-25-cnc-325/16190029-P?searchTerm=brake+line

No experiment. This is the stuff; you can get it much cheaper if you shop around (it goes on sale at Amazon for closer to $30/25 feet pretty often).
It flares much more easily than steel line, and doesn't corrode.

I usually buy the SUR&R brake line kits with 50 feet and a box of assorted fittings for about $100 on Amazon, but I pay for my nice flaring tool by making brake lines (and fuel lines) for all my friends.

With a little time spent waiting for sale prices, a patient line-replacer to be could buy a good quality flaring tool, 50 feet of copper-nickel brake line, and the required fittings for maybe $60-75, and be able to re-plumb the entire car.
 
#14 ·
What I buy:
https://www.amazon.com/Inch-E-Z-Bra...01B5RLUU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1486498965&sr=8-4&keywords=SURR+3/16+brake+line

A good deal for one repair now, with leftovers for future repairs:
https://www.amazon.com/4-75-Copper-...dp/B01801G45A/ref=pd_sbs_263_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=DF9X1N1GESY29W5T1GF4

That second one, and this kit:
https://www.amazon.com/Bubble-Metri...YQ2ZLWU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1486499394&sr=8-3&keywords=iso+bubble+flare+tool

...would make you the go-to guy for brake lines in the neighborhood. The copper-nickel flares so easily, that you won't have any trouble with the inexpensive flare tool. It bends even easier than the pv coated lines you bought pre-made.
And, of course, you get to choose your own length instead of trying to decide between 2" too short or 6" too long...
 
#16 ·
I'll stick with the stock lines, and get the 20" ones. I can do a little coiled bit like Sailor mentioned. I don't expect to do this a lot. After this job I may not ever need it again. I don't know. I do know it's not something I'll need much. Not enough to invest in the tools I'd need. The stock lines are inexpensive if you only need them once in a great while.

I'm not a trade mechanic, or a hobby mechanic. I work on my car because I can't afford to pay someone else to do it.

I know some basics, the rest I'm learning as I go. You folks here are a great help, and I appreciate you very much.
 
#17 ·
Bgreywolf, looks like I'll be getting a flaring tool after all, and some of this NiCopp brake line. I remembered you talking about it, and searched my old brake threads to find it.

My main brake line on the driver's side broke, and it's too rusty to splice. The other side probably needs replacing as well. Not sure yet how much line to buy, I haven't found anything that tells how long those pieces are. It'll be after the first week of July before I buy parts, so I have a little while to find out. If nothing else I'll add a couple of feet to the measurement from the engine compartment to the back wheel, and hope that allows enough for whatever bends I have to make.