I wonder if this is what my 2012 focus se is doing. it has a slight hesitation when accelerating, but it doesn't seem to affect overall driveability. just something annoying I happened to notice after I bought the car [wrenchin]

 

This is likely your concern yes.

Lots of truth in this video on many points. Thanks. Have you heard word that another revision of clutch pack and seals is in the works?

At this point in time the seals and clutches have been the same since aug 2013 so I think they have made it work!

 

Lots of truth in this video on many points. Thanks. Have you heard word that another revision of clutch pack and seals is in the works?

 

Is there a second video that showed the transmission pulled apart?

 

Yes here-

 

Really interesting video. Thank you for making and posting. I interpreted that the gist of the problem, as you see it then, was a design defect in the original black seals. A few quick questions if I may:

1) have you ever had a car with the brown seals come back in again with a shudder and/or leak? If so, why?

2) there have been at least some accounts of shuddering issues in 2014 model year cars which presumably would have had the brown seals already. How might you account for those?

3) what changes did ford make to the clutch packs between revisions a and e? I believe e is still the latest, correct?

4) if further refinements to the seals or clutch pack were in the works by ford, would you have necessarily heard about it or do they just find their way into parts stream when ready.

5) you stated that you believe all of the black seals will eventually fail if they have not already, why wouldn't Ford initiate a recall?

 

Really interesting video. Thank you for making and posting. I interpreted that the gist of the problem, as you see it then, was a design defect in the original black seals. A few quick questions if I may:

1) have you ever had a car with the brown seals come back in again with a shudder and/or leak? If so, why?

Never

2) there have been at least some accounts of shuddering issues in 2014 model year cars which presumably would have had the brown seals already. How might you account for those?

Software issues, imperfect clutches design.

3) what changes did ford make to the clutch packs between revisions a and e? I believe e is still the latest, correct?

I have only seen D as the latest for fiesta and focus. They don't get into the details of how they fix the clutch. It is an over complicated designed dual clutch setup with many areas for failure and noise issues.

4) if further refinements to the seals or clutch pack were in the works by ford, would you have necessarily heard about it or do they just find their way into parts stream when ready.

When ready they put them out, but as stated the seals haven't changed color not part number since aug indicating it is a good known fix.

5) you stated that you believe all of the black seals will eventually fail if they have not already, why wouldn't Ford initiate a recall?

IDK it is up to them and the NTHSA to recall them on a safety concern.

 

Thank you.

 

So I assume my Oct 2013 build date will have the newest / latest brown seals. Can I assume the transaxle is also Oct 2013 or Sep 2013 at the worst?

I hope Ford isn't receiving transaxles that have been assembled many months prior to vehicle assembly.

I've noticed no problems on my 2014, but then again, I only have a hair over 1k miles, so it sounds like I still have quite a bit of break in remaining.

 

I didn't think I'd actually spend 45 minutes watching this, but I did. Not really sure why because I don't own one and have no interest in owning one. Guess it plays to my curiosity and your ability to explain things.
I must say, again, good video.

I am guessing that the color of the seals plays to material design. Black is generally Nitrile Rubber and brown would be PTFE Rubber (rubber being figurative). Each has a specif temp range it works best at as well as a shaft speed (relating back to heat / from friction). Basically, the brown seal can handle more temp and should have less chance of overheating and becoming brittle and leaking.

 

That is great, thanks a million!

 

So in other words what your video says is those of us who's warranty is almost up and haven't had a bad shutter yet or signs of a leak are going to SOL soon when it does inevitably leak. Awesome. All because of 2 seals that likely cost $2 each when the car was built.

Unless Ford issues a recall on these soon I'll be trading mine in for something that is not a Ford. It's the 1980s all over again where Ford has no problem burning customers for life over what was otherwise a really good car.

 

With respect to your first paragraph, that is certainly how I would take it.

With respect to the recall, I think the OP raised a good point. While this sucks butt, it probably hasn't been enough of a safety issue to warrant NHTSA attention and therefore a recall seems unlikely.

 

Ford is not the first to have done something like this. Chrysler did something similar in the 90's with truck transmissions that were flawed. They had the new design on the shelf, but for years afterwards sold trucks with the "sure to fail" transmission. VW sold hundreds of thousands of Jetta 1.8 engines with heads that would sometimes crack under warranty. In order not to hurt the brand name in Europe, all the flawed cylinder heads were shipped to Brazil for the American market, and the factory warranty decreased, and the optional warranty cost increased to reflect the cost of the cylinder head replacement. I had a friend whose wife totalled a Civic Si because a rotor shattered after 20k miles causing her to make a sharp turn into a ditch. Guess what? Honda refused to help out, so they were stuck with paying for a scrap car.

There isn't a single auto maker out there who really cares about you. Good luck with whomever you choose. Any of them can make a winner and any of them can make a loser. Even super reliable car models can be a lemon. I knew a guy who had a Cressida, and I know several with Lexus' that spend as much time in the shop as they do on the road. It happens to all of them.

 

Somehow I take no comfort in that.

 

Other then the oil leaks , I have found 95% of the issues in the software , If the slip is more then 250 it can be cured with a tune among other things

Tom

 

Is the process starting at 24:30 only done with the Ford tool? I.e. a PCU reset won't go through this process right? The adaptive learning process sounds like it measures certain parameters, then sets those parameters (in firmware?).

I believe the video calls it "TCM adaptive learning" and it sounds like only the Ford tool executes this procedure.

What happens if a tech physically replaces the clutch pack, and does not go through this process?

 

How much do you guys think this would cost to replace the old seals with the new ones? I would like to prevent those issues.

 

Threads in the MkIII section estimated clutches/seals at $1500, not something you'd do as a "preventative" to avoid paying for the same repair.

 

Threads in the MkIII section estimated clutches/seals at $1500, not something you'd do as a "preventative" to avoid paying for the same repair.

I have not read this whole thread yet, but I'm wondering why it is not in the MkIII section, since it only applies to 2012+ cars?

 

So I just took my 2012 focus to the dealership this week because it is shuttering. After having the car for 6 hours they told me they couldn't get it to shutter, but in the same sentence told me it was within limits. I don't understand how bad the shutter has to be before they deal with it. The car shutters so bad it almost stalls in reverse. And I get some shutter once in a while while in drive as I'm just starting to go. I'm confused and I'd what within limits is.

 

I don't understand how bad the shutter has to be before they deal with it. . . . . . . I'm confused and I'd what within limits is.

>250 rpm

 

What do you mean? Mine will shutter just sitting in reverse and it gets worse as you start to back up

 

If the rpms jump/fall in excess of 250 during a shudder event and it is not cured by flashing the TCM, then they are supposed to tear the tranny down.

 

Oh ok gotcha I understand now. I'll have to see how high it jumps or falls but it has to be a lot for me to feel like the car is going to stall when I give it gas. Their tearing things apart in 2 weeks to replace my input shaft seal that's leaking. Hopefully it will fail for them and they can do it all at once.

 

If they are already replacing the input seal, that will probably do it. I am sure they will update the TCM then as well. Did they say if they were replacing the clutch packs as well?

 

They didn't say anything about working on the trans other then it's still under warranty until 60k miles. So it didn't sound like they were going to mess with it. I think all their doing is the seal that's leaking. So we will see. I might ask to take a mechanic for a rude because it does it to me like 95% of the time.

 

They have to tear the tranny down to get to the input shaft seal. Watch the videos above.

 

Oh well then maybe they will mess with the tranny. It would make sense and make things easier then having to do it more then once.

 

I called ford today and scheduled an appointment for the 27th. The lady I talked to told me she was seeing more cases of this and she thinks that might be what's wrong with mine! Thank god for extended warranties, my wife will have a nice rental

 

OP - is there any reason the clutches would slip more when the A/C compressor was engaged?

 

No they wouldn't it is all independent of what is going on with the engine load side. I now have a new I posted about exactly how we are TOLD by Ford to test them and they see the recording so we cant fudge it. So you can see just what we are looking for! I posted it in another thread but I will post here since many asked about it.