I'm running a Steeda CAI and the FSWerks stealth exhaust. I noticed a tapping in the valve train as soon as I installed the Steeda CAI at low Rpm high torque loads. Went and did an auto cross day at a local track and got six runs in before my engine started rapping like a diesel. Made it half wat home and it died. I checked the oil and she was bone dry. The dealer tore it apart and found that it melted part of the drivers side piston. Their best guess is that the injector hung up and dumped fuel into the cylinder. It bent all 4 valves. Ford is covering it under warranty and I am getting a whole new long block.
Blown engine at 35000 miles
hixsonaf
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This^^^^
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6,249 Posts
Good thing I didn't buy your tune and a wideband.
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3,338 Posts
I just looked at the dyno thread again and I only saw 2 cars that the AFRs seemed wacky on. But it looks like sonic_hedgehog and craigsfocus had almost perfect AFRs, and like I said mine always read around 12.5.
And I'd also like to know where you're hearing about these popped engines, as you always seem to have so much exclusive information, Tom.
And I'd also like to know where you're hearing about these popped engines, as you always seem to have so much exclusive information, Tom.
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357 Posts
Oops... meant closed loop.
Maybe if you try to decipher the information on the graph without reading through the accompanying thread, one may assume that these cars are running relatively lean...
BUT if one actually reads the thread, they will find that:
1. 2012+ Focus uses a wideband front o2 sensor
2. The car remains in closed loop at WOT
3. The commanded and actual AFR was about 12.5 at WOT (this was on a car with no modifications)
Even the owner of the dynoed car mentioned that his AFRs were actually in the ~12 range at WOT.
(This thread)
StingRay saw the same results, as well as the other owners he mentioned...
I will datalog my car later as well when I have time.
Again, I don't see where people get the notion that the car runs lean stock when the data shows otherwise.
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They do have factory oil specs... GM has about 6 different types, ford about 5 etc. Now I'm interested in making a thread again, but my point is that even from the same manufacturer, one 5w-30 may be thinner or thicker than the other. The idea is to use oil with the same properties as factory fill, as it is designed by the engineers to match the characteristics of an engine. If you use the wrong stuff, your warranty can be denied. This is their way around having red faces. I have heard of engine failure on an engine with only 500 miles because of improper oil.
Ever wondered why they offer maintenance packages now? That's kind of their way around wasting millions on replacement engines.
I just thought it was interesting... we have always been taught that all we need to know is if it has the API and ILSAC labels, it's good. They're meaningless. Go look at a bottle of Castrol edge, for example. See how it meets specific ACEA ratings that say, SuperTech, doesn't.
If you want to look into it more, I would like to make a thread on it... in the meantime, check out the data sheets for your favorite oil. Specifically the "cSt at 100°" number. a lower number indicates a thinner oil. Factory Toyota specifies 10w30 for my engine, but I went with 5w30 Castrol Edge because it had the closest cSt to the factory oil. their 10w30 was far too thick.
whoops off topic... oh well.
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I find this hard to believe that if you have any mods on your MKIII, that you warranty is void. I went to the dealer with an issue with my transmission acting a little off and they had no problem with my intake and exhaust. If your statement was true, they would have turned me away. And there is no way that they did not see them. They updated my software and the trans has been great since.
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357 Posts
+1
Obviously isn't true... after all, the OP got his engine replaced under warranty and the car had mods...
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I didn't know warranty work was up to Ford to decide... I always thought it was the mechanics at said dealership to determine weather or not modification caused said problem to occur and if this can not be proven then Ford will pay said dealership to repair/replace problem.
Bottom line is; Ford pays the dealership to fix the problem. I don't think they would want to turn someone away.
If I am wrong do not shoot me.
Bottom line is; Ford pays the dealership to fix the problem. I don't think they would want to turn someone away.
If I am wrong do not shoot me.
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33,660 Posts
Some is exclusive some isnt , all you have to do is look , ask and know people , I am in the Focus business it wouldnt be wise for me not to know whats happening so I stay in contact with people in Ford and many many dealerships that I do work for or friends or Family in
Need to look through those dynos again there all lean in my opinion, Mine is as well and the few I have had on my dyno ... all lean
Tom
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No one is going to shoot you , "Ford" has control over what gets covered not the dealership ,
You take your car in with a blown engine , the dealer does the work it is a area warranty rep (traveling rep) that makes the final decision who gets what warranty on major parts , the mechanic has little to no say so at all when it comes to warranty
Ford dealerships can actually get in some trouble if they do "to much" warranty work
Tom
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I dont think so but thats your call , The Tune is one of the only things Ford cannot see or know you did or have
Tom
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No one is going to shoot you , "Ford" has control over what gets covered not the dealership ,
You take your car in with a blown engine , the dealer does the work it is a area warranty rep (traveling rep) that makes the final decision who gets what warranty on major parts , the mechanic has little to no say so at all when it comes to warranty
Ford dealerships can actually get in some trouble if they do "to much" warranty work
Tom
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3,338 Posts
I have plenty of connections. I might not be a professional tuner, but I HAVE been in this industry for quite some time.
And you said it yourself, In your opinion those engines run lean, when in reality DI engines are designed to run a bit more lean than a normal port injection car. On my ST things are a bit different of course, but other tuners I have talked to are still surprised at how lean the car runs, but then when I talk to DI tuners they assure me it's normal. My cobb tune, fswerks tune, and the sct tune I tested all ran around 12-12.5:1. My NA was the same way. The users I listed's graphs all have them in the same range. Others have said theirs are also there as well.
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One run on a dyno vs a track day when your on the track is not the same tune , this is where a LOT of tuners get in trouble , they like to go to the leaner side because that shows the best dynos and what the customer wants to see
I have a LOT of SCCA winning customers running the Zetec and I put the NA 93 octane fuel tunes at 12.8 air fuel , most say you will see a los in HP with that AF , I do boosted at 10.8 AF , I have been raked over the coals for this by many builders and tuners , it works , they live and they loose little to no HP
My 2012 in my opinion is lean and I will be changing it as soon as my code is finished through SCT .
I tune a SCCA gen3 all stock and he killed 2 engines , added fuel and now the engine is living , I feel the engines are lean to th point of being dangerous , add intake and header , exh and you make the problem worse , put the car on the track and do a few laps and you will see the car go leaner
Tom
I have a LOT of SCCA winning customers running the Zetec and I put the NA 93 octane fuel tunes at 12.8 air fuel , most say you will see a los in HP with that AF , I do boosted at 10.8 AF , I have been raked over the coals for this by many builders and tuners , it works , they live and they loose little to no HP
My 2012 in my opinion is lean and I will be changing it as soon as my code is finished through SCT .
I tune a SCCA gen3 all stock and he killed 2 engines , added fuel and now the engine is living , I feel the engines are lean to th point of being dangerous , add intake and header , exh and you make the problem worse , put the car on the track and do a few laps and you will see the car go leaner
Tom
Well I keep trying to upload the image of the piston but it keeps failing to upload. Anyhow I have seen the piston and the head and the bent valves in person. I have a picture if the piston but didn't get a shot of the valves because I was talking to the mechanic and forgot. The piston has a chunk of the edge on the firewall side about 2" long melted away down to the rings. Three out of the four valves are bent very badly and one is bent slightly. The first thing I talked to the service writer about was my mods. They were aware of them from the beginning and if ford would have suspected the mods to be the reason y the engine failed they would not have covered it under warranty. The way it actually happens here in PA (Tom) is there is no traveling warranty rep. The mechanic working on the vehicle takes pictures and logs their info electronically and ford decides what happened and what they will fix and how. This is straight from the mechanic and service writer at smail ford in greensburg, pa. Ford has cut the dealership out of the decision making process, again straight from the horses mouth. So Tom I would like to see the proof of where you have the info that ford said it will not cover an MK3 with a CAI or a cat back exhaust, because they are covering mine without question. I only put this post on here to inform people of what appears to be a freak mechanical issue in my engine. Not to start a conspiracy theory that ford did not do enough R&D on the engine and now it runs to rich or lean. I will keep trying to get the pictures up. I am going to give the dealer a call today and get a status update also
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Everything you said about warranty approval is exactly what they told me when I messed up a piston and needed a new engine
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Sounds to me like it didn't have an injector that actually hung open, but one that did not fire, thus leaning that cyl out to the point of melting the piston and causing chunks of it to get in the way of the valvetrain causing the bent valves. Glad to see the issue is being sorted out for you.
Yes, this sounds like a freak mechanical issue (only one cylinder was damaged) and I am sure Ford will take notes so that this may be corrected in the future.
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I thought you hadn't tuned any MKIII's yet.
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The injector malfunctioning would be very strange. I'm not that familiar with other DI platforms and this happening.... but it's never something you were about in the Mazda world.
I wonder if maybe it had something to do with a fuel pressure dip or something more like that. I'm guessing with the compression of this engine, it doesn't particularly care for KR all that much.
As far as I'm concerned, with DI you can actually run the mixture leaner due to the efficiency of the burn since fuel is being injected directly into the cylinder.
There typically isn't a huge power gain (or loss) from fattening it up, but 10.8:1 seems very very excessive. There have been plenty of boosted/raced DI cars who are commanding anything from 11.5-12.5:1 with great success.
Someone just needs to monitor KR while they're playing around with the mixture. Find out where they actually knock and not just use archaic information from 20th century technology.
I wonder if maybe it had something to do with a fuel pressure dip or something more like that. I'm guessing with the compression of this engine, it doesn't particularly care for KR all that much.
As far as I'm concerned, with DI you can actually run the mixture leaner due to the efficiency of the burn since fuel is being injected directly into the cylinder.
There typically isn't a huge power gain (or loss) from fattening it up, but 10.8:1 seems very very excessive. There have been plenty of boosted/raced DI cars who are commanding anything from 11.5-12.5:1 with great success.
Someone just needs to monitor KR while they're playing around with the mixture. Find out where they actually knock and not just use archaic information from 20th century technology.
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The whole idea of going to DI in gasoline engines is for efficiency. You can get away with a leaner mixture because of the way fuel is injected into the engine, plus the added compression to make it all work as efficiently as possible adds extra power (along with the improved intake flow due to not having that injector stuck in the port). Further, there is more octane tolerance (you can run lower octane with high compression and get away with it). Lots of win-win going DI (if you can get the cost and complexity under control from a manufacturing standpoint).
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