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tonyguns

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello all, this is my first post, and wanted to get the "Bottom Line" on a beautiful 2016 Ford Focus Titanium with the "Powershift" transmission. after reading nearly 400 pages of posts about this transmission, from "-B" pack clutches, to new TCM replacements, to Tom's tune, you'd think I would run screaming from the car, but I drove it, and loved the car's look, feel and performance, even if a little late to the torque range.

Question 1
What has really changed, if anything to remedy the car's inherent issues with this DCT, or am I facing a car that will drop in value so fast I could hear it whistling in my driveway like a WWII bomb?

Don't mistake me for a car novice, I have an extensive history with building racing motors for Hondas, and would probably fix my own issues on this car post warranty.

Both my wife and I really want to make the move, but are a little hesitant after everything I have read.

Question 2
If the newer models do have revised parts to make the car safer and more drive-able, what Life expectancy Can I reasonably expect out of the clutches?


Thanks for any and all help, I'm currently renting a 2016 focus Se with 32K to see how it handles my daily commute.
 
Newest 2016 has the latest revised clutches, and lifespan from member reports on older ones can range WELL over 100k unless replaced earlier for 'shudder' complaints.

Can't do clutches yourself though, tool cost is more than the cost of paying for the job - even after warranty period. Mechanical tools for the physical work, and Ford IDS computer tool plus subscription for the programming. IDS reset of clutches is part of the job, even without TCM updates.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Supposedly the issues are fixed, but it's a risk.

If you can leverage the clutch issues into getting a great deal, then it may be a worthwhile risk. I chose to take it, and got a great deal on a new car.
Yes, that's my motivation too, right now my local dealership is offering 5000.00 cash back.

Also, let me update my first day experience in the 2016 Focus Se rental:

1. I had my Dad run the vin number for any dealership repairs, and it came up with none yet at 32,841, so if the car had any mechanical repairs, they did not happen at Ford.

2. First let me premise that if you put in your mind that this car is in fact a manual transmission, then some of it's mannerisms make more sense and not worry you so much, it feels very much like a stick, especially off the line where you notice the clutches engaging. That's where the bulk of Ford's response about that's just how this car will behave probably comes from I guess. I will have to say that there is a little shudder at take-off from the line, but it seems trivial so far. I would love to be able to test this car for a year and just pile on the miles, because so far I don't think I have enough data here to make me feel any better about the decision, except that I absolutely love the way it handles, looks and drives, and the interior features are super easy to use.

Please keep posting opinions on this thread, especially if you own a 2015, or 2016 and can add to your experiences. mostly because these cars aresupposed to be built with the updated and newer parts.
 
This isn't to minimize anyone's issues at all with the DCT but most of the "issues" were either people not driving them right, or not fully understanding what it really is. Like said previously, if you drive it like a manual, you'll understand why it acts the way it does. I have the most recent clutches and TCM in my 2014 SE and it's been great so far. I get an occasional shudder but it's either because I confuse it, or it's because it's trying to adjust from me driving it hard to me driving it lightly. It really is a cool piece of technology if you understand it. Now here's my disclaimer, I understand that the powershift did have issues. Also, I think it's really hard to read complaints from driver error. There's always going to be a few bad units out of the thousands or millions produced. It's just a fact of life and some people get the bad units. What I've learned is that negativity speaks louder than positivity. That's why I take most of these complaints with a grain of salt. Sorry for the rant.
 
It's not a myth that the DCT problems are as widespread as they are and is the #1 problem with the MK3 followed closely by the MFT system. There are people that the DCT has been great then poof the next day not so great and yes,you have a warranty but I'd rather have a car that isn't in the shop.

If I was car shopping I'd buy the 5 speed or look at other cars. So much info on the DCT not operating as promised why take a chance? even Ford has acknowledged this.
 
Ive got a 2015 sport with the dct select shift option. Had my car for over a year with 28000 miles so far. No real problems yet *knock on wood*.. as said before you have to drive it like a manual and dont attempt to creep short distance because you have to let the clutch fully engage. I put in a steeda rmm and that increased the vibration studder feel but only in situations where the clutch hasnt fully engaged which is understandable to anyone who drives a manual. Off the line its great but if you redline it in first sometimes it will buck pretty bad and you have to put it back in drive long enough for the transmission computer to "reset" itself. Id say go for it if its what you want. Personally sometimes i wish i had waited long enough for maunals with my desired options to become available in my area, but thats just for preference not any problems.

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I drive manual transmissions daily in northern Virginia and have done so for years. The DCT issue with my wife's Titanum did not creep up until well after 40,000 miles. The oil seals leak onto the clutches contaminating them and causing the issue. Our clutch pack along with the seals was replaced yesterday.
 
It's not a myth that the DCT problems are as widespread as they are and is the #1 problem with the MK3 followed closely by the MFT system. There are people that the DCT has been great then poof the next day not so great and yes,you have a warranty but I'd rather have a car that isn't in the shop.

If I was car shopping I'd buy the 5 speed or look at other cars. So much info on the DCT not operating as promised why take a chance? even Ford has acknowledged this.
i have the dct and wouldnt buy another, and mine works fine. if you want the reliability and no thoughts in the back of your head wondering when your trans could take a dump, get a stick or a diff car
 
I wouldn't do it. Looks are deceiving, and talk is cheap when it comes from Ford. Resale value is plummeting on these cars, and they'll all be off the road in 5 years I'd bet. They just aren't going to last, there won't be enough salvage units to keep them going.

Consider a Mazdaspeed 3, Elantra GT, or there's also a Cruze hatch on the market now that looks pretty cool. For the love of god, do yourself a favor and pass on this infernal machine. The phrase "titanium" makes me laugh. Car is anything but solid.
 
Question 1
What has really changed, if anything to remedy the car's inherent issues with this DCT, or am I facing a car that will drop in value so fast I could hear it whistling in my driveway like a WWII bomb?

I got a REALLY good deal on my SEL Hatchback ($13,000 for a 1 year, two month old SEL was a steal), with 17,000mi on the clock and was previously a rental car.

The issues I've had:

- New cruise control module on the steering wheel (what the they THOUGHT it was and didn't work as my cruise control would only turn on when it felt like....they said I wasn't using it correctly and I called them on their bullshit as every car I've owned had it, including my five speed 2007 ZX4) and new Clockspring (what it ACTUALLY was as I made the service manager drive it).

- My car developed shuddering, serious hesitation, low power, sudden lurching, unpredictable acceleration issues so new clutches+seals installed and a TCM reflash. This solved the problems in 2014.

- While my hesitation was gone, unpredictable acceleration reared it's head again as sometimes it seemed like it wasn't getting enough power, so I would push a little more and it would attempt to spin the wheels to take off like a rocket.....literally like I held the clutch and accelerator, then lifted fast off the clutch. Turned into getting looks like I was a crazy driver. Got new clutches and seals (set # 3 now) with another TCM update and it's like a different world. It's still not perfect, but acceleration is consistent, predictable, and does exactly what I tell it to do. My only worry is that it now rides the clutch with an extremely smooth shift from 1-2 which sounds like a conventional automatic, but after that it's like it was before, but solid. I did notice when I'm going between 40-50 mph with it hits 4th gear, there is a very faint "jolt" feeling, but it doesn't bother me.

- Another problem unrelated to the DCT is that last year, my driver side door latch failed and the part was not available for a month, rendering my car useless. There was no recall, but the part was on "national back order" which tells me this is a major problem. Luckily I had a decent dealership as initially they wanted to charge my $800 for the fix, I talked them down to $350, and by the time my car was ready, they didn't charge me at all. I'm also lucky I had the best neighbors on the planet who let me borrow their truck to get to work.




Question 2
If the newer models do have revised parts to make the car safer and more drive-able, what Life expectancy Can I reasonably expect out of the clutches?

Honestly, no clue. My clutches weren't to the point that it was undrivable, but it was pretty bad and having to over compensate for the transmission was a chore. I have a friend who had even worse transmission problems. It is the same year and had about the same amount of miles as mine when he got it. He has about 80,000 miles on it now while I'm just at 63,000.

I got rid of my ZX4 5-speed as I was finally done with the chore of shifting, however, I still understood the behavior of the manual enough to know most of what was going on. The car drives GREAT when it works. The handling is amazing for being a mainstream compact car...same as the old Focus. Both have had to get new front rotors, but my 2007 needed them at 40,000mi while my 2012 went at 60,000mi which is an improvement.

If I could do it again, I probably would have waited to get something else with a conventional auto. No way I'd still be driving my 5 speed even though it would have been paid off 3 years ago. When the technology works in my car, it's great. Probably would not have made the purchase, if I had better choices at the time, but this really caught my eye when I saw it initially online. It was a very good deal and no car is perfect. It was in an accident as a rental which is why it was as cheap as it was at the time, but it was repaired properly I feel sorry for those that spent over $25,000 on this new. I feel like I've gotten more than my value. I definitely would NOT have purchased this vehicle new even with all the great features.

My bottom line. Do NOT buy this new with the DCT, you will regret it. If you want a Focus THAT bad, get the manual....and at that point, you might as well go for the ST.


On a side note, it looks like the "SEL" has finally returned for 2017 (It was gone for 13-14, then called SE Luxury for 15-16 but w/o the badge).
 
I'll take a loaded dodge dart over my focus any day.

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I have the 5 speed and almost to 5 years ownership and the only thing it was in the shop for was faulty AC compressor bearings that showed up at 90 miles and smooth sailing since.
 
i'd say buy the car if you can get a good deal. I have the DCT in mine and it's a 2014 with about 35k miles. no issues at all *knock on wood*. I wont deny that there are definitely some bad DCT's out there but i think a lot of the problems talked about on here are driver error more than anything. it seems like most of the mechanical issues were with the early models(12-13). These are really great cars despite what some will say and i personally really like the DCT and hope that Ford continues to offer them in future cars.
 
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i'd say buy the car if you can get a good deal. I have the DCT in mine and it's a 2014 with about 35k miles. no issues at all *knock on wood*. I wont deny that there are definitely some bad DCT's out there but i think a lot of the problems talked about on here are driver error more than anything. it seems like most of the mechanical issues were with the early models(12-13). These are really great cars despite what some will say and i personally really like the DCT and hope that Ford continues to offer them in future cars.
Exactly how I feel about the DCT and my Focus.
 
I notice there's a bit more of people saying how great it is then some of those same people want to shoot their cars a year later and I have 3 friends with DCTs in their 2014 Foci and all have had issues and two traded them back in.
The problems have lessened quite a bit with the 2015s but it still seems you have a transmission that shudders,hesitates and still hunts for gears which is just how the Ford DCT is which as a bit of a hard driver myself that would drive me nuts. Definitely not a good autox tranny.
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
I really appreciate everyone's input, believe me, this was not an easy decision, but Ive been renting a 2016 focus now for a full 2 days, and have put this car through it's paces, from every road condition, to heavy traffic, to driving it hard to try and overheat the car, and it has managed everything I could throw at it and then some.

Now... here's my dilemma:

My Dad works for Ford, so I do have the luxury of a discount, and I am literally getting this car for 1/2 price. I am trading in a fully paid off 2014 vehicle, and have to come up with 1000.00 cash to buy the car. I would LOVE an ST or even an RS all day long, as this car's chassis is quite brilliant, and I have raced SCCA for years. BUT... I absolutely have to have an automatic-ish car due to the horrendous traffic in my city, and this is just too sweet a deal to pass up, and I absolutely have grown quite fond of the DCT; When it's working, it's a lot of fun to thrash around.

Soooooooo..... I gave the salesman by debit card and he handed me a receipt for 1000.00

Am I a sucker? maybe... but I needed a fuel smart 5 door hatch with an automatic, and having access to a brand new car for that price was just too hard to pass up.

As a side note: ford and many other car makers will be going to this transmission type more and more, as they are extremely lightweight, cheap to build, and more efficient than conventional transmissions. I can say with much confidence that the next Gen Focus will still have this setup.

I plan on starting another thread to chronicle my experience, from mile 1 till I sell it, hopefully it can be a positive story about how a properly driven DCT can be reliable, I am hoping the latest version of this transmission can give other buyers something to aid them in making a decision on these really cool cars.
 
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