Moved to Brakes, Suspension & Chassis.

Not much point to the FR springs, small change from Stock for lowering/spring rate vs. other aftermarket options.

 

Well, I dont want much drop just maybe 1/2" really looking for more spring rate especially in rear to help with push. Don't really want to buy anything until I at least know the stock spring rates. Also, I want linear springs which eliminates most of the options.

 

Throws you right back to the FR's as the only mild drop option.

 

Well the steeda has a mild drop along with St springs. I'm just looking to get the spring rates so I can make a decision on how to set up the car. I know the ST stock has 171f and 183r spring rates ,and the steeda is 195f 240r. I just can't find the stock spring rates for the 2012 SE or the rates for the Ford racing springs. I don't want to blow a bunch of money and then find that I haven't gained any roll resistance or increased my rear rate as much as I would like to help with the understeer.

 

ST springs leave the tail low & nose high, just saw another post this week complaining about results from that.

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/10669850-post15.html

 

That is what I was afraid of using that option. I think also that the front springs might be to much given the lighter weight of the na focus. Which would cause even more understeer.

 

Like your planning process, settle on springs then adjust with sway bar.

 

Already have the sway bar steeda 100% stiffer. Really pleased with it. I'm just a little nose high and spinning coming off the corner. I can use tire pressure to eliminate understeer ,but cannot lower front pressure enough to get good grip with the nose a little high.

 

Nose can go a bit high just from acceleration I'm afraid.

Auto-X section is good for some info., even though it's not one of the busier areas. Not much on MkIII there yet.

Might try removing one of your front sway bar links to try it without that. The serious race cars with stiffer springs usually run that way. The idea is to STOP adding something that lifts the inner wheel to let it spin.

Steeda might be too much at the rear then, you'd have to try it & find out (maybe in some practice?).

 

I had thought of that. Just didn't want to lose stability. Was thinking with stiffer springs all around I could limit the body roll and help keep the inside wheel down. Don't know though just learning and trying to get a setting where I can be halfway competitive.

 

ST's lift the inside rear stock.

Factory suspension tuning on them already has the tail a bit loose for a FWD.

Just an extreme idea, if you want to try putting more power down before straightening up. Felt pretty good on sweepers with my older car when one of the stock links (front) broke, do have the SVT suspension on it for a little stiffer/lower.

 

Bump, anyone have the stock spring rates for mk3 SE. I talked to ford racing again ,and while they wouldn't give me a number they said probably 15-20% more. So I just need the stock rates to see if it will be enough.

 

Ford isnt going to give out their spring rates, doubt you will find a published number for it. This post gives some insight into what they think the ST's rates are, might help you get a better idea what the SE rates are:
Spring Rates?

 

Yes I saw the spring rates for the ST. I think the SE rates are softer especially the front. Just don't have a way to check the rates myself.

 

I don't think I ever autocrossed mine with stock springs, but that said, I don't think I ever had an issue with inside wheel spin. I'm captain slow, so take that for what it's worth, but the "torque vectoring" electronic nanny is pretty good at moving a car around cones.

My biggest problem is always not getting my braking done soon enough and understeering as a result.

As I've gotten better with the car, it seems to track pretty well, and all said and done, it's much more predictable with the Steeda bar and wider tires (I'm now running 235's on 17x7.5s).

I can turn TC off, and have learned the car well enough to about equal the times I have with TC on, but if I don't try to "fight" TC, it easier to run a quicker time.

I wouldn't rule out progressive springs, and you might upgrade to ($$$$$$) Koni yellows to dial the car a bit more.

I'm on Vogtlands, and initial isn't much more than stock, but man to they ramp up quick. I'd watched my son wheel the car around the cones, and it really stays pretty flat, doesn't wallow or bounce. So, the eyeball test results are the same as the seat of the pants results - progressives may not be all that bad.

Finally, at around 60k miles I replaced the SE dampers with Handling Pack Ford units. You wouldn't think the difference would be that much, but it was night and day, and the increased damping of those units really made the car feel crisp. All four of those I think are about the price of 1 front Koni unit (at least from RockAuto).

At worst, an upgrade to handling pack units might be a cheap investment to give a little better feel to the car.

 

I have Bilstein struts I just installed which are 10% stiffer than stock. That is what caused the problem. After I installed them it raised my car up especially in the front at least 1/2" which causes problems with understeer and corner exit wheelspin. The struts feel very good and there is almost no roll or dive under braking. The problem is it pushes unless I run my rear pressures way higher than the front. I think my old struts must have been shot causing the car to ride low. It just felt better with the front low even with what were probably blown struts.

 

A couple things - the "stop" tab on the strut where it fits in the knuckle, is it all the way down? On the HP struts I put in, I actually trimmed that tab to drop my front about 1/4" lower (yeah, I'm wierd), so possibility - but I'd think they'd settle a bit after a while...

Second, define "way higher pressure" front to rear. For me, 4-5lb differential is not unusual.

I think I run 38lbs front, which lets the tire run to the edge of the tread block, and the rears 42-43lbs - that actually bows the tire, and the rear contact area usually runs about 1/4" or more back from the edge of the tread block.
That lets the rear come around a little better to rotate the car - especially helpful to me on sweepers where I'll let the car rotate in to the next gate.

A bit of personal preference there, YMMV.

 

Ok, I obviously am very new to this. So, I guess not way higher. 35f 40r Not getting a lot of traction on the front. Maybe, camber? Was actually thinking to mess with the rubber isolator to see if that would get me the drop I want. Is that what your talking about when you say tab? I said way higher because the week before with the old shocks I ran 35f 30r to get traction on the rear because the car kept wanting to swap ends. So the next weekend after the struts I ran those pressures and had a horrible time with the car plowing and me hitting every cone with the back tire.

 

Well, I'm no expert, but I know enough to be dangerous....

On the strut itself, where it goes down in to the knuckle, there is a welded on "tab" that ensures you don't bury the strut too far down in the knuckle; see bottom of pic, little "nub" right above the first "2" in 22-xxxx...

If you didn't push your strut down to that tab, your car would sit higher than normal. Because your perch is fixed relative to that position, it affects your ride height.

Raising your front also affects your center of gravity, and roll centers. With weight sitting higher up, it'll affect how it transfers side to side. Think of a hammer - if you hold it at the end and wave it side to side, it'll generate more force than if you hold it farther up the handle towards the head.

Roll centers, I think, and smarter guys than me will come along and advise, are kind of like a lever arm that will "push" the car side to side. Too much loading will cause the tires to work harder - but this is way over simplified, and may not be the most accurate description.

Finally, the dampers on the car control how slowly or quickly those events move the springs. Stiffer dampers cause things to "move slower", technically, I think, but the effect is events are transferred to the tires more efficiently, and they'll reach slip angle more quickly.

So, on the miata, with adjustable Koni's on it, if it's tail happy, I'll turn the fronts up to full stiff on rebound (or whatever works well...) and the front will give way sooner, balancing out the tail wagging. Same spring, right, but the damping control affects how the tires respond to controlling the spring at a different rate.

Same thing that going from OE dampers to Billy's do, or OE dampers to handling pack units.

If your dampers are "at bottom" on the knuckle, I'd think it'll settle a bit eventually, and the rest is the result of the dampers. Did you change all four corners, or just the fronts? Just the fronts would be exacerbate the effects on that end.

 

I changed all four. Before the change my front and back were within 1/8". Now the front is noticeably higher. I checked and made sure I was bottomed out against that ledge on the shock. The only other thing it could be was how I indexed the top of the spring in the top hat. I followed the manual which states have the nub on the top hat which is also the highest point face the back of the strut. Although, it looks like it would be lower if I used the low side of the top hat to place the end of the spring. I just don't want something to go wrong in case they designed the spring end to bend in a certain way.

 

Whenever there is a 'pocket' in the spring perch for the end of a coil that isn't wound to a flat face, the end of the spring belongs there.

It MAY eventually migrate there on it's own, putting it somewhere else would definitely lift that corner of the car.