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wakram22

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi folks,

Put simply, I ran lean for a long while and finally replaced the fuel pump. This made everything okay (No lean condition) for 4k miles until that pump failed to prime and just all out failed. I had electric to the fuel pump but it wasn't doing anything.

I've sent that pump for inspection and a refund if it's faulty. I think so as the mechanics fitted it twice and checked the float arm but it would never report any fuel level (Either empty or full).

This is Fuel pump number three, it's been two days, I'm still running lean. Where do I go from here. 02 Zetec DOHC 1.6 (Petrol)

I've kept it quick as this is a long running saga, I'll happily provide any information.

Thanks

Waseem
 
#2 ·
Are you doing the work or is a mechanic? How do you know your running lean? Do you have a wideband?

Check for plugged injectors, fuel filter. Is your car MAF or MAP? dirty or bad sensor making you think you are getting less air than you really are pulling?

You only have two things to impact if your lean, rich, or nominal. Air and fuel. Running lean you are either getting more air in the system than the ECU thinks or not as much fuel as the ECU is trying to provide.
 
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Discussion starter · #3 ·
A mechanic did the fuel pump, the pump "sock" is clean, the fuel tank isn't rusty so no clogs. Fuel filter is clean too, less than a year old.

My fuel trims read Short Term -3% and the Long Term is +21%. Occasionally they swap with each other for a while.

The Engine is MAF. Ford say don't touch it, the manifold needs to be removed if I want to as there is no access to it. The engine has been smoked, revealing one leaking T-Hose which has been replaced but it had no effect on the fuel trims.

It's been lean for the last two years, I've had both 02 Sensors replaced and injectors flushed.

Only time my fuel trims were fine was when I put a Pierburg Fuel Pump in a few weeks ago. That was the one which failed the other day. The mechanic asked me not to buy another Pierburg, he may have put in the alternative pump which local parts store sells which is half the price. Would this be the problem, a cheap pump?
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
I think the next step is to check the Pump for a Voltage Drop. Would I need to find a voltmeter with cables long enough to connect to the battery and all the way to the pump under the rear seat? Maybe it's a bad ground affecting the pumps ability to provide proper pressure?
 
#5 ·
You if the pump controller is the same on your car as on the ones in the states it would be under the rear passenger seat & carpet. Perhaps you have a bad controller that is not able to source the power. If its an aftermarket cheaper pump then perhaps it could be the pump still. Why do you need long cables for a volt meter?

I would say grounding would be unlikely unless something drastic changed in the last few years.

Injectors are flushed.. what does that mean? That you put a fuel treatment in or did you actually have them pulled and tested to make sure the actuators are working and spraying correctly?


The pump is going to work to try to maintain a certain pressure in the line. do you have access to an Xcal 2 or higher that can plug into a laptop and do some data logging?
 
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Discussion starter · #6 ·
Yeah pump location is the same. I'm not sure what Voltage numbers it should be producing which I can compare to though. I thought I'd have to one of the voltmeter cables to the Battery in the engine.

I had the injectors taken out one by one to see if they are clogged, they spray fine.

I don't have access to that, I'm not sure what the UK equivalent is. If it is SCT brand specific, that's pretty expensive to bring over from America. Very few mechanics around this part have diagnostic tools which go in depth. I found some diagnostics guys but they charge about £100/$143 to hook the car up for a few hours to pull the numbers. Ford charge £90/$129 Per hour!
 
#7 ·
Not sure if it would work but I will be in London for 2 weeks in May and could bring mine... but again someone with more experience with them would need to chime in to see if I could data log with it on your ECU type with the programmer being locked to my ECU.

The pump should run 12V. You will just need a volt meter w/ 1 lead to ground and another to the output voltage of the pump. It does duty cycle though so you will need to measure when first powered on. or override the pump control and turn the pump on with the fuel filter or fuel rail removed so the fuel can flow when the pump is running.
 
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Discussion starter · #8 ·
I'll give it a try. Although I just went to check to see if I can access the Pump Control module from the top of the pump under the seat. I then discovered four bolts, a metal plate and a lot of foam. It seems my mechanic has had enough of constantly dropping the tank as he's cut straight through the panel.

Interesting he would do this as I can't measure anything now, too much foam around the place. He wanted to discuss payment for labour this weekend when I offered to pay him yesterday. This is probably why!

I thought it was 12V, if I'm not wrong if the Voltage reads more than about 0.4V it means too much is being directed to the meter > not enough going to the pump.

Thanks for your offer, I don't want to drag you out to Chiswick. The pace of life in London is too quick, I wouldn't want to waste your time. Very grateful for the offer though.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
New development. My mechanic snapped a pipe, he didn't specify which one, only that he would replace it. He did, but this morning I've checked under my car before heading to work and there is a puddle of fuel under the car. I'll be seeing my mechanic tomorrow. Could this be affecting the fuel pressure? I guess it depends on location, I'll clarify when I can get it on a ramp and have a good look.

I've looked at my 02 Sensors responses before, as it threw a code a few months ago and I had the front one replaced. I'll check again but I'm sure they both stay within range. I'll post the numbers later
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Okay, so had the broken pipe replaced. Here are my numbers from my little OBD scanner over 30 seconds at each RPM:

Engine Status.........Idle.....................2500rpm

DTC_CNT.................0...........................0
FUELSYS1...............CL..........................CL
FUELSYS2..............N/A........................N/A
LOAD_PCT (%)........8.6.......................16.1
ETC (DegreesF).......216.......................212
SHRTFT(%)..........0.8-1.6..................5.5-10.9
LONGFT(%)...........17.2 (Constant)........-6.3 (Constant)
MAP (inHG)..........7.4-7.7...................6.5-7.1 (Average ~ 6.8-7.0)
RPM....................819-835..................~2487
VSS(MPH)................0...........................0
SPARKADV(Degrees)..3-7.....................15-16
IAT(DegreesF)........63-64....................64-66
TP(%)....................19.6......................27.1
02B1S1(V)..........0.120-0.725............0.119-0.790
SHRTFTB1S1(%)....-0.6-3.1..................3.9-9.4 (Average ~5.5)
02B1S2(V)..........0.660-0.780............0.075-0.140
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
I'll have to hand it over to someone to find this leak I think. I've hit it with water, carb cleaner and even smoke. The smoke revealed a leak in the T-Hose that sits under/in front of the manifold beside the MAF sensor.

Replacing that changed nothing. The only time my Fuel Trims were at 0 +/-5 was when they put the faulty fuel pump in. I'd like to know what was wrong with it as it seemed to be doing something to normalise things.

Your replies so far have been appreciated.
 
#16 ·
Maybe when they did the pump they unknowingly fixed a vacuum leak near the charcoal canister. After driving the car the hose came loose or broke again.
Replacing the pump via a hole in the floor would prevent any stress or look at the evap hoses back there and may have left the leak. Making it look as though the pump fixed nothing.

just a guess though.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
I'll have to wait until the weekend before I can get under it. Before then though I've found a garage local to work that has pressure equipment and will have a good go at looking for this leak on Friday. I'll ask them to ramp it and check the charcoal canister and rear pipes like you suggested and I will let you know how it goes.

How do I find leaks in the hoses at the rear of the car? I imagine there is no change in revs if I spray anything in. Is it all just visual? Any tips would be appreciated as always.
 
#18 ·
I think the best way to do it would to remove the EVAP vacuum line from the intake manifold and cap the port on the manifold. Rerun your OBDII scanner tool and see what your values are again. You only have 5 vacuum lines so you can always try it also on the other 4 ports aswell.
 
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Discussion starter · #19 ·
When I rerun the OBD, should I unplug my TPS or front 02 Sensor to keep the car open loop or should I keep everything as is?

Also, turns out the pipe the mechanic replaced wasn't what was leaking fuel. I think it's the fuel filler pipe (It's the chunkiest one back there), must not have gone on right when they put the tank back in. He didn't spot it as it only drips when the tank is near full. Took a petrol drip to the face this morning, breakfast tasted awful after that.
 
#20 ·
wakram22 said:
When I rerun the OBD, should I unplug my TPS or front 02 Sensor to keep the car open loop or should I keep everything as is?

Also, turns out the pipe the mechanic replaced wasn't what was leaking fuel. I think it's the fuel filler pipe (It's the chunkiest one back there), must not have gone on right when they put the tank back in. He didn't spot it as it only drips when the tank is near full. Took a petrol drip to the face this morning, breakfast tasted awful after that.
Click to expand...
That's because you need to have at least 91 octane if your going to have it for breakfast...

Sounds like you might need to find a new mechanic??

I am thinking you want to keep everything the same. If you are running in open loop then you are likely going to always be running rich. Rerun the tests in the same way you did before so you are removing as many variables as possible..

and just in case some kids are reading this, you do NOT mix fuel and Mountain Due and drink it, it will KILL you, regardless of Octane rating.
 
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wakram22
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