Hey All, so I'm a bit new here but I'm having a serious problem with my Focus. I drive a 2005 Ford Focus zx4 ses, great solid car BUT, my gas mileage is very awful. On a full tank of gas, I get on average about 12 mpg city and almost 16 mpg highway. I have 122,400 miles on the car which I know is kinda high, but this car is like my baby I love it. I bought it brand new in 2004 when it was first released. The maintenence is perfectly up to date. I have a custom cold air intake on the car, that I keep nice and shiny and new. I can't quite figure out what the problem might be. Anyone have any ideas?
Very Poor Gas Milage
raphael05
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My have to hijack this thread cause today i've driven my car 120 miles and its at half a tank. Usually when i fill up i get 100 miles on the first 1/4.
Checked for leaks, none visible.
Checked pressure sensor as sailor suggested to OP. Good vacuum, no fuel in line.
I still have the issue with my throttle body flap being slightly off but its always been that way and hasn't caused this much of a gas drain.
Replaced fuel filter, idk, 10K miles ago. Did it once when I first got the car as a general tune up and then a while later to make sure nothing was still in tank.
I checked the codes, only one was about the idle which is always been there.
What should be the fuel rail pressure be at?
~ED~
Adjusted the throttle body like I should have a while back. Didn't change the RPM much, may have to take the screw further out? so that the RPMs drop further. Currently in the 1200 range with the previous range of around 1300.
O2 Sensors.
#1 voltage fluctuates quickly between 0.150 and 0.880
#2 voltage fluctuates slowly between 0.065 and 0.130 with an occasional hits up around 0.470 range.
Checked for leaks, none visible.
Checked pressure sensor as sailor suggested to OP. Good vacuum, no fuel in line.
I still have the issue with my throttle body flap being slightly off but its always been that way and hasn't caused this much of a gas drain.
Replaced fuel filter, idk, 10K miles ago. Did it once when I first got the car as a general tune up and then a while later to make sure nothing was still in tank.
I checked the codes, only one was about the idle which is always been there.
What should be the fuel rail pressure be at?
~ED~
Adjusted the throttle body like I should have a while back. Didn't change the RPM much, may have to take the screw further out? so that the RPMs drop further. Currently in the 1200 range with the previous range of around 1300.
O2 Sensors.
#1 voltage fluctuates quickly between 0.150 and 0.880
#2 voltage fluctuates slowly between 0.065 and 0.130 with an occasional hits up around 0.470 range.
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Fuel pressure between 50 and 60 psi.
Fluctuating readings for your #1 O2 are normal. #2 O2 reading indicate cat inefficiency & this may also indicate a clogged-up cat; which can effect engine performance and MPG. Do a search for "O2 sensor test" or "testing catalytic converter". Lots of info and resources here and out there on the interwebs.
I was just involved in a similar line of discussion here, check post #22->
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=465665&page=3
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863 Posts
My FRP (Fuel rail pressure) is at 39-40 at idle (keeping in mind that its a high idle)
Going out right now to do that, screw is almost all the way backed out though.
Here is a video of the live output of my OBDII tool.
Un-check the box before downloading.
http://www.datafilehost.com/d/54287465
If anyone doesn't mind looking at it to see if there is any oddities.
Going out right now to do that, screw is almost all the way backed out though.
Here is a video of the live output of my OBDII tool.
Un-check the box before downloading.
http://www.datafilehost.com/d/54287465
If anyone doesn't mind looking at it to see if there is any oddities.
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Yep, sorry guys, I was recalling fuel pressure from a recent datalog I did with Torque (smart ph app). I just looked at the log file and the psi numbers are called "Fuel Rail Pressure (relative to manifold vacuum)(psi)" and were hovering at 60 psi. Anywho, yes, I guess the psi should be in the 40 to 50 range. My bad.
I need to go read-up on Fuel Rail Pressure (relative to manifold vacuum)(psi) & maybe other PIDs inside Torque for measuring Fuel Pressure.
Edit:
Found a great resource to learn about "Fuel Rail Pressure (relative to manifold vacuum)(psi)" on about page 4 ->
https://www.fordracingparts.com/download/tipsPDF/ProperlySelectingEFIComp.pdf
Also looked at a couple other data logs and found my Fuel Rail Pressure was more often in a range of 43 to 53 psi while accelerating from 0 to 45 mph. The first log (the one at 60 psi) was an oddball and was recorded while at idle only.
I need to go read-up on Fuel Rail Pressure (relative to manifold vacuum)(psi) & maybe other PIDs inside Torque for measuring Fuel Pressure.
Edit:
Found a great resource to learn about "Fuel Rail Pressure (relative to manifold vacuum)(psi)" on about page 4 ->
https://www.fordracingparts.com/download/tipsPDF/ProperlySelectingEFIComp.pdf
Also looked at a couple other data logs and found my Fuel Rail Pressure was more often in a range of 43 to 53 psi while accelerating from 0 to 45 mph. The first log (the one at 60 psi) was an oddball and was recorded while at idle only.
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863 Posts
Okay, after an hour of tinkering I am finished.
Took off TB (the top of the screw is damaged) and backed out the screw to a point where the threads are no longer visible.
The door was adjust already to a point I was satisfied.
Hardly any light is visible.
Only fuss i have now is that the door closes to good that it has a TINY bit of "stick" to it, not free flow open but that is fine for now as I will either go get one from a parts yard or just wait till I can get one from CFM.
Also took out my MAF and used some cleaner on it.
Started the car, idle was in the 800s.
Turned on the air, car starts shaking as if going to stall.
Turned the air off and plug in the IAC and the idle picked up to 1200 and slowly fell to the are of 880. Turned air on and it picked up a little bit but fell back down.
Took it from a drive, everything seems okay.
Sitting idle in the yard the idle stays around 880 960 with/out the air on.
Now IDK if that will solve the massive amount of fuel usage that happened in the 130 miles I have driven it but ill keep my fingers crossed.
Took off TB (the top of the screw is damaged) and backed out the screw to a point where the threads are no longer visible.
The door was adjust already to a point I was satisfied.
Hardly any light is visible.
Only fuss i have now is that the door closes to good that it has a TINY bit of "stick" to it, not free flow open but that is fine for now as I will either go get one from a parts yard or just wait till I can get one from CFM.
Also took out my MAF and used some cleaner on it.
Started the car, idle was in the 800s.
Turned on the air, car starts shaking as if going to stall.
Turned the air off and plug in the IAC and the idle picked up to 1200 and slowly fell to the are of 880. Turned air on and it picked up a little bit but fell back down.
Took it from a drive, everything seems okay.
Sitting idle in the yard the idle stays around 880 960 with/out the air on.
Now IDK if that will solve the massive amount of fuel usage that happened in the 130 miles I have driven it but ill keep my fingers crossed.
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Hi Humphrey. I watched your video of OBD activity. One item that stuck out for me was O2B1S2 voltage reading was lower than you hope to see, but happens on old and failing cat converters. Your video only shows it for a couple seconds tho, so next time watch it for awhile & do it after the car has already been running for several minutes. The O2B1S2 should be hovering mostly in the 0.5 Vdc range on a healthy cat. BTW, unlike O2B1S2; O2B1S1 is supposed to be jumping around.
Using my poormans data-logging, my car also has bad voltage readings on the O2B1S2. I am about to officially call my cat bad & plugged up because of this and some engine performance problems I have... but decided to ask a local garage to do a couple tests to confirm... which I plan to do within the next 2 weeks.
Using my poormans data-logging, my car also has bad voltage readings on the O2B1S2. I am about to officially call my cat bad & plugged up because of this and some engine performance problems I have... but decided to ask a local garage to do a couple tests to confirm... which I plan to do within the next 2 weeks.
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863 Posts
Is it normal for this drastic of a fuel efficiency change from a bad cat?? Last fill up (I fill up and use the entire tank till fuel light) and everything was good. This fill up, drove it for a bit and wasn't noticing anything- washed my car, body and engine area, then next time I drive it- mega fuel lose.
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I did not mean to say that ur cat is bad or clogged. IF the cat had a sudden failure (many particles separating inside it) that caused it to clog-up, it would have an effect on MPG... and it should also cause your engine/car performance to act funny or worse. If clogged, you should feel it in the gas pedal or feel like your car lost power.
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BTW my car (likely have a clogged-up cat) runs great if I step on it. My performance problem shows its' face best when stepping on the gas lightly, with AC on, and while on very slight inclines (up hill)... but does not require all of these conditions to be present.
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Here are two videos of OBDII data. I'd upload the actual stuff but no computer link cable. Marde suggest I should post these (i think) so as to share and get further help. I am thinking after I get paid that I will go to a shop as he will be doing to get CAT temp taken by IR. Hopefully nothing to bad is wrong with my car. Its all I got.
Over 60 so its just a name.
http://www.filedropper.com/zerotosixty
After returning home and letting idle.
http://www.filedropper.com/idlinginmyyardafterdrive_1
Over 60 so its just a name.
http://www.filedropper.com/zerotosixty
After returning home and letting idle.
http://www.filedropper.com/idlinginmyyardafterdrive_1
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I downloaded each file and watched them. Problem is;
1- I am a newb to this kinda stuff.
2- Videos of a few live sensor data do not provide enuf info to make any good conclusions.
I have recently made my first few (poormans) data-logs with Torque, and even mine are difficult to do proper analysis of what my engine is doing verses what it should be doing. So far, I am only using MS Excel to view my csv files. I'm also experimenting with Live-Link.
From my very limited experience, you and I both need data-logs from a better tool like a SCT Xcal3 and data analysis software (like Live-Link) that allows us to see things more clearly... and allows us to cross reference several sensors onto a chart and more.
Your live OBD data is a great tool to see what the car is doing. My live data using Torque is also a great tool. Doing analysis of what we see and log with these limited OBD tools is a work in progress -for me. I am looking forward to learning how I can best use Torque data-logs & I'm also wanting a SCT Xcal3 data-logger/tuner. First for me tho is getting my car running like it should be. Sorry for the semi-rant thing I am going on about. Cheers!
1- I am a newb to this kinda stuff.
2- Videos of a few live sensor data do not provide enuf info to make any good conclusions.
I have recently made my first few (poormans) data-logs with Torque, and even mine are difficult to do proper analysis of what my engine is doing verses what it should be doing. So far, I am only using MS Excel to view my csv files. I'm also experimenting with Live-Link.
From my very limited experience, you and I both need data-logs from a better tool like a SCT Xcal3 and data analysis software (like Live-Link) that allows us to see things more clearly... and allows us to cross reference several sensors onto a chart and more.
Your live OBD data is a great tool to see what the car is doing. My live data using Torque is also a great tool. Doing analysis of what we see and log with these limited OBD tools is a work in progress -for me. I am looking forward to learning how I can best use Torque data-logs & I'm also wanting a SCT Xcal3 data-logger/tuner. First for me tho is getting my car running like it should be. Sorry for the semi-rant thing I am going on about. Cheers!
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Marde - --> http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=81526
& http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290996
Gen II will work better for sorting data.
Simply select the PID's you want the ranges to be and one for the data you want to look at. Then use whatever you wish for the range divisions.
For example, for finding the Mass Air Transfer function (MTF) you can use Throttle Position PID (SAE PID) and call everything above about 600 counts WOT; form 599 to about 225 Part Throttle and from 224 to 0 as Closed Throttle/Idle.
Gen II will open any .CSV file.
It's the only thing I use for going through datalogs and I love it. Real time saver.
If you need help, just shoot me a PM and I can help ya out.
& http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290996
Gen II will work better for sorting data.
Simply select the PID's you want the ranges to be and one for the data you want to look at. Then use whatever you wish for the range divisions.
For example, for finding the Mass Air Transfer function (MTF) you can use Throttle Position PID (SAE PID) and call everything above about 600 counts WOT; form 599 to about 225 Part Throttle and from 224 to 0 as Closed Throttle/Idle.
Gen II will open any .CSV file.
It's the only thing I use for going through datalogs and I love it. Real time saver.
If you need help, just shoot me a PM and I can help ya out.
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863 Posts
Well I have ruled out a fuel leak for the most part. Bought some UV fuel dye and put that in my tank with the little bit of gas I had left. Drove it from the store home.
Took off my Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor to see if the dye had made it all the way to the engine and it had (so I then used the light to check the fuels level of illumination, it was good). Flipped on the UV light started hunting. Not a SINGLE hint of fuel.
Only place I couldn't see was on top of the fuel tank that was up against the "floor" of the car but I did jack it up so that it was leaning around at 30-45 angle and didn't see any fuel slide off the top.
Took off my Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor to see if the dye had made it all the way to the engine and it had (so I then used the light to check the fuels level of illumination, it was good). Flipped on the UV light started hunting. Not a SINGLE hint of fuel.
Only place I couldn't see was on top of the fuel tank that was up against the "floor" of the car but I did jack it up so that it was leaning around at 30-45 angle and didn't see any fuel slide off the top.
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Awesome and Thank you iminhell.
I will pick this up in a new thread in the FF Tuning Area. I will make that new thread either today or it might wait a few days because of other work & fun plans.
Before I leave, I wanted to hit a few items or ask a question here anyway... I had previously dl LiveLink 6.5 on this PC. Earlier today I dl (by your link above) LiveLink Gen-II v2.1 on a different PC. Based on ur comments, I am guessing Gen-II is better for my needs right? So do you recommend that I delete 6.5 and then install Gen-II?
Using Torque as a datalogger sucks butthole. <-That phrase is something my 11 year old son picked up, -nice, uhgg. Anyway, csv files created by Torque do not open up in LiveLink (Gen-II or 6.5) or not until after some manual tweaking of the csv is done. After comparison of a csv file created by an SCT device verses one created by Torque, I found that if I add a left most column (using Excel) titled "Time (sec)" the Torque csv file will then open using LiveLink. After the Time column is added, actual times must also be entered in each of the respective cells.
Lastly, some PIDs that are common in a SCT "Duratec-Log-List" are not available and/or are not being recorded by Torque, which sucks for me and other users of Torque. Turbo Tom has a fix for this; buy a SCT Xcal3 and his service, and toss out this silly Torque thing. Someday I hope to do that, but until that day, I will be putzing around with Torque and LiveLink. The only positive for me is that Torque Pro ($5) and my OBD bluetooth adapter ($15) has me in the game for 20 bucks... however, If I am unable to get some good analysis and detect car problems while using Torque, I will have to admit that I was never really in the game. With or without data-logging, Torque has its' uses, value, and provides some decent tools for those of us without an SCT xcal tuner.
I will pick this up in a new thread in the FF Tuning Area. I will make that new thread either today or it might wait a few days because of other work & fun plans.
Before I leave, I wanted to hit a few items or ask a question here anyway... I had previously dl LiveLink 6.5 on this PC. Earlier today I dl (by your link above) LiveLink Gen-II v2.1 on a different PC. Based on ur comments, I am guessing Gen-II is better for my needs right? So do you recommend that I delete 6.5 and then install Gen-II?
Using Torque as a datalogger sucks butthole. <-That phrase is something my 11 year old son picked up, -nice, uhgg. Anyway, csv files created by Torque do not open up in LiveLink (Gen-II or 6.5) or not until after some manual tweaking of the csv is done. After comparison of a csv file created by an SCT device verses one created by Torque, I found that if I add a left most column (using Excel) titled "Time (sec)" the Torque csv file will then open using LiveLink. After the Time column is added, actual times must also be entered in each of the respective cells.
Lastly, some PIDs that are common in a SCT "Duratec-Log-List" are not available and/or are not being recorded by Torque, which sucks for me and other users of Torque. Turbo Tom has a fix for this; buy a SCT Xcal3 and his service, and toss out this silly Torque thing. Someday I hope to do that, but until that day, I will be putzing around with Torque and LiveLink. The only positive for me is that Torque Pro ($5) and my OBD bluetooth adapter ($15) has me in the game for 20 bucks... however, If I am unable to get some good analysis and detect car problems while using Torque, I will have to admit that I was never really in the game. With or without data-logging, Torque has its' uses, value, and provides some decent tools for those of us without an SCT xcal tuner.
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4,584 Posts
I did not know you were considering a fuel leak. Your test sounded good. You have only recently detected a MPG problem, so I suggest you run awhile (1 or 2 tanks) then calculate your recent MPG. Did you say that you have NOT seen any engine performance problems so far? Maybe some of your gas was siphoned out by a "friend" or by an alien? Never heard of a gas-siphoning alien? Oh please!? Really!?? They exist!
Protection from aliens found here->
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C5CEKC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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863 Posts
No performance problems imo. I drove to the store like a normal person and erthing was fine.
When something goes wrong I dont rule out anything until its tested.
No gas stolen and ive been mid route from point A to B and seen almost half a 1/4 vanish.
When I fuel up is when the light comes on.
I fill the tank, my car has a 13/14 gal tank.
I clear my trip each time.
Ive always gotten 310/320 miles per fill up.
Right now I have less then a quarter left and going on 220 miles.
When something goes wrong I dont rule out anything until its tested.
No gas stolen and ive been mid route from point A to B and seen almost half a 1/4 vanish.
When I fuel up is when the light comes on.
I fill the tank, my car has a 13/14 gal tank.
I clear my trip each time.
Ive always gotten 310/320 miles per fill up.
Right now I have less then a quarter left and going on 220 miles.
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What the F#^K did I just stumble across...
Look at this link for gallery of images I just took when I pulled my coil packs.
http://imgur.com/a/qLty2#0
Ive sucked what oil I can out with the help of my air tank but not all of it is get-to-able... I chose the one with least amount of fluid in the socket to pull a plug.
Look at this link for gallery of images I just took when I pulled my coil packs.
http://imgur.com/a/qLty2#0
Ive sucked what oil I can out with the help of my air tank but not all of it is get-to-able... I chose the one with least amount of fluid in the socket to pull a plug.
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