Does anyone know if anyone has produced a trubo kit for the new 2012 ford focus? or a programmer at least??
Boost all the things.
Infam0usprime
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Supercharged Ti-VCT/Engine durability
Are you even being serious? I can't honestly believe that you're asking that; I thought you were smarter than that.
I guess basically only in everything. We can start at the fact one is a Honda and the other is Ford and then just add everything else about them to the list. Or are you trying to say that all engines between 1.6L and 2.0 are close enough to count? Or maybe just all 4-cyl? Or is there a certain hp limit that the two engines must be within to be considered directly comparable?
It can't even be mathematically because the 1.6 would have to have 128 hp, not 140.
[facepalm]
Are you even being serious? I can't honestly believe that you're asking that; I thought you were smarter than that.
I guess basically only in everything. We can start at the fact one is a Honda and the other is Ford and then just add everything else about them to the list. Or are you trying to say that all engines between 1.6L and 2.0 are close enough to count? Or maybe just all 4-cyl? Or is there a certain hp limit that the two engines must be within to be considered directly comparable?
It can't even be mathematically because the 1.6 would have to have 128 hp, not 140.
[facepalm]
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2,198 Posts
But the airflow and power BEFORE being boosted are roughly similar. THAT was the entire point of the comparison.
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14,374 Posts
Horseshoes and hand grenades.
Just want to point out (not trying to add fuel to the fire) that direct injection engines can usually run drastically advanced timing compared to other engines due to the decreased cylinder temps. Fuel doesn't have time to heat up and go bang before its supposed to! MOAR HP AND TQ!!!!!
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14,892 Posts
The fuel injection and valve timing are no where near comparable, therefore the air flow is also not really comparable either.
The Honda even if it had i-Vtec is not quite comparable to a direct injected engine with fully variable camshaft timing on the intake and exhaust camshafts, so I'm still not sure where you're going with this. Displacement being close is no guarantee of similar operating efficiency or performance. You can have a 5.0 L V8 making less power than a 2.0 L I4, so that in and of itself is meaningless.
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2,198 Posts
If you want to raise a flag and throw out personal experience, sure, go right ahead. Have you ever even owned a FI car? Much less tuned one? Is all of your knowledge internet based? I've shared my experience. What's your credentials to troll me?
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Supercharged Ti-VCT/Engine durability
If you have so much experience then just start making correct statements and comparisons. Just because someone owns a FI car doesn't make them a pro, and I've met plenty of FI owners that start spouting out information and facts thinking they know it all when clearly they don't. They start saying that 15 psi on a big turbo is somehow different than 15 psi on a small turbo...
I have no need to throw out 'credentials', but fwiw I'm a licensed Airframe and Powerplant mechanic. I don't generally worry about cars because I work on airplanes and helicopters. And before you start trying to flame Suss for also pointing out failures in your comparisons, he's an engineer.
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You really can't stand people not bowing to all of your 'experience', can you? I'm not trolling you in any way; I'm point out the fact that you can't compare apples and oranges. If you were saying that your stock Honda put out 'x' hp and then it put out 'y' after the larger turbo then I wouldn't have said anything. But the Mk3 puts out 160 advertised compared to the Mk1 Zetec of 130 (iirc), and they're both 2l engines. Just because there is a common comparison doesn't mean there is a direct comparison.
If you have so much experience then just start making correct statements and comparisons. Just because someone owns a FI car doesn't make them a pro, and I've met plenty of FI owners that start spouting out information and facts thinking they know it all when clearly they don't. They start saying that 15 psi on a big turbo is somehow different than 15 psi on a small turbo...
I have no need to throw out 'credentials', but fwiw I'm a licensed Airframe and Powerplant mechanic. I don't generally worry about cars because I work on airplanes and helicopters. And before you start trying to flame Suss for also pointing out failures in your comparisons, he's an engineer.
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2,198 Posts
Ok, want to see the DIFFERENCE in 15PSI from one turbo or another? Let one of these kids on here throw a SC61 or 626 on a stock motor. 8psi is fine? 250~hp, right? WRONG. Tehy bolt a big turbo on their car, run "safe" 15PSI and there bottom end parts all over the street. Efficiency, YES, efficiency of the system is what causes 15PSI to NOT equal 15PSI.
If that's how you are going to treat these people who do not know their ass from a hole in the ground, so be it.
If that's how you are going to treat these people who do not know their ass from a hole in the ground, so be it.
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14,374 Posts
Are you following this thread at all? I never said any specific amount of pressure was 'fine' or would produce a certain power output and I've even requested to see the math of those that were. I'm well aware that there is a power difference between different turbos even when boosting the same amount and that was in one of my responses to you.
Don't get pissy because I called you out on a couple of discrepancies. Man up and get back to sharing your knowledge. Geez. You act like I'm trying to make you quit the internet again when this is really minor.
Inevitably there is going to be a FI Mk3. Up until someone actually does it these threads are just going to be banter and discussion with some facts and lots of BS. If you can't deal with that you probably shouldn't be in the boosting threads.
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2,198 Posts
Book smarts vs practical knowledge. Can you tell me whats best?
Engines are ALL just airpumps of different size and efficiency with various methods of timing events. Get your brain wrapped around that and everything is relevant data. It's easy to say "That's not relevant" without any more reason than brand differences, or timing or injection type... That's all fluff and THAT is irrelevant, not the comparison.
How about you show ME the math that makes it irrelevant? How is a Focus' direct injection engine rated at 160hp 146tq with all kinds of cam wizardry, high compression, etc that much different than say a 2.0 L B20Z engine, producing 147 hp (110 kW) at 6,200 rpm and 133 lb·ft (Honda CRV). The compression difference alone probably makes up that 13hp difference.
I see 13 hp, less than 10% difference in HP, at similar RPM levels... that would tell me that the AIRFLOW through the engines is roughly the same... and wow look at that, the B16a uses the same design... and that was my comparison point that you just said Nope, Irrelevant! When it's absolutely relevant data.
Engines are ALL just airpumps of different size and efficiency with various methods of timing events. Get your brain wrapped around that and everything is relevant data. It's easy to say "That's not relevant" without any more reason than brand differences, or timing or injection type... That's all fluff and THAT is irrelevant, not the comparison.
How about you show ME the math that makes it irrelevant? How is a Focus' direct injection engine rated at 160hp 146tq with all kinds of cam wizardry, high compression, etc that much different than say a 2.0 L B20Z engine, producing 147 hp (110 kW) at 6,200 rpm and 133 lb·ft (Honda CRV). The compression difference alone probably makes up that 13hp difference.
I see 13 hp, less than 10% difference in HP, at similar RPM levels... that would tell me that the AIRFLOW through the engines is roughly the same... and wow look at that, the B16a uses the same design... and that was my comparison point that you just said Nope, Irrelevant! When it's absolutely relevant data.
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913 Posts
Yea how about we get the thread back on track. Yes it has been discussed a million times before but there is no harm in discussing forced induction. I for one would love a supercharged focus. Or a turboed one too. All that we need is someone to step up and be the guinea pig.
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913 Posts
That would be awesome, but alas it most likely won't happen. If I had the funds and a second car I would gladly donate mine for r&d as well. One day maybe.If you guys crowdfund the build, I'm happy to donate the car for researchwe could have the final product packaged as a "kit" for a group buy :-D
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913 Posts
Lol yea! Trust me I do it all the time! If I won the lottery I would totally love to fund r&d for new parts for these cars simply to help the community along. Mainly because it is one of the best automotive communities I've seen.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/toyota-rav4-
This reminded me of my parents RAV4 so I figured I'd take a look at the numbers 0-60 in 6.3
I shocked many cars and trucks at how quick it was, still puts a smile on my face.[cool]
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33,660 Posts
There is a LOT of things that go into the mix from one 2.0 to another 2.0 you do have to keep apples with apples
You have to take into account stroke , bore , head flow , intake flow , intake and TB size , compression of engine , combustion chamber design , piston top design then little things like windage trays , oil scavenging and the list goes on
I know of a 2.0 engine 30 years ago that made 237HP to the wheels on 10.0 compression on 93 fuel yet out Duratec say 2005 makes what 145 to the wheels , both 2.0 both close to the same compression but way far off on HP
I also have to agree that 15 psi is 15psi regardless of the turbo used BUT one turbo at 15psi makes 250 and the other turbo at 15psi makes 320hp to the wheels comes from its ability to move more air at the same psi
Hope this helps
Tom
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2,198 Posts
Would you concede that 2.0L's that make similar power numbers at similar RPM levels would be comparable on overall airflow?
I'm sure the 2.0L you're talking about making nearly 250hp did it at some monstrous RPM level, right? Huge head ports and silly cam specs are certainly huge differences to take account of.
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Well said.
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