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F308gt4

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
The 2016 Focus I bought for my daughter is our families 2nd DCT car. I thought it would be interesting to provide a comparison of the two cars, and share my positive experiences with the Focus DCT, having driven it enough to get a good idea of its pluses and minuses.

My other DCT car is a 09 Porsche 911 with a DCT transmission (called PDK, or Porsche Doppelkupplung). It is an amazing transmission on an amazing car. To manually shift the car, you move the shift selector to manual mode and use paddles on the steering wheel to change gears. Like the Focus, the right paddle shifts up, the left paddle shifts down. In addition, the car has 3 modes, Normal, Sport, and Sport +. Activating sport or sport + changes the electronic engine mapping so it engages a sharper throttle response. It also stiffens the suspension and slightly lowers the car.

In the Ford, you shift into S mode, then hit the paddle to indicate that you will be manually shifting. S mode also changes the electronic mapping. It doesn't do anything to change the suspension.

Driving either car in manual mode is fun. I haven't driven the focus to redline yet, but it's nice to see that the car doesn't shift itself when it gets close. In the 911 in manual mode, the car will not shift and just bounces off of redline until you shift it by pulling the paddle. Both cars will downshift in manual mode when RPM's get low enough to prevent lugging and stalling. The Porsche shifts are a bit faster than the Ford, but honestly, the difference is not that noticeable to the average driver (maybe a professional race car driver would notice the difference).

In auto mode, both cars drive well. Neither car is as smooth as a true automatic, but that's to be expected. I've seen some complaints (though not many) about shuddering in a PDK equipped 911, so the issue isn't limited to just Ford. Perhaps because people tend to drive Porsche's a little harder? The key is, it seems, drive it like a manual.

One thing I don't like about the Focus is that the gear is not displayed in auto mode. Just because I'm driving it in auto, doesn't mean I wouldn't like to know what gear the car is in.

One dislike about both cars: They should have designed the car to be able to shift to neutral by pulling both paddles in. Many high end cars are able to do this, and it is useful to be able to shift to neutral if needed. I understand that newer Porsche's have this ability.

Reliability: We all know about the Ford, though it seems to me that I have seen much fewer issues in the '15 models, and haven't seen anything with the '16 models- so hopefully it is fixed. With the 911, the PDK has a pretty solid reputation, though there have been some failures. Interestingly, Porsche claims that the PDK is not serviceable, so if you have a PDK issue, you are talking ~$14k for a new replacement transmission. Luckily, it seems like these failures are rare.

In general, I think the Ford Powershift DCT is a really nifty transmission. Sure it has its issues, but it's not all that different from the transmission in the Porsche. When you consider that the Focus has an MSRP of a little over $22k, and my 911 has an MSRP of about $120k, I think Ford has done a pretty good job with their DCT. It's not perfect, but it holds up pretty well to a car that cost almost $100k more.

So get out there and enjoy your DCT equipped Focus. The technology is pretty impressive.
 
The Ford DCT I'm sure has a much bigger failure rate and cars spending time in the shop. The Porsche tranny cost almost as much as a Focus so the Porsche tranny is a completely different animal from a quality and operation standpoint. The Ford lags behind the manual version where the Porsche delivers as promised.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
The Ford DCT I'm sure has a much bigger failure rate and cars spending time in the shop. The Porsche tranny cost almost as much as a Focus so the Porsche tranny is a completely different animal from a quality and operation standpoint. The Ford lags behind the manual version where the Porsche delivers as promised.
Reliability aside, the Focus gives you 90% of the experience of the Porsche, for ~10% of the price.

As to reliability, from perusing this site, I'm not seeing a lot of issues with the post '15 cars, so hopefully the issues has been resolved. It's a risk I thought was worth taking.
 
Issued just have been curbed a bit as it's still the same transmission til it's replacement comes.
I'd still not buy (still a slower transmission vs5speed) one as I wouldn't trust it and I really like rowing the gears and if I had a Porsche I'd opt for one of their silky smooth 6 speeds.
 
Discussion starter · #6 · (Edited)
I'd still not buy (still a slower transmission vs5speed) one as I wouldn't trust it and I really like rowing the gears and if I had a Porsche I'd opt for one of their silky smooth 6 speeds.
This surprised me, and I looked up the specs and you are right, it is 0.1 second slower on the 0-60 times. In the Porsche, it is the other way around, manual 6 speed has a 0-60 at 4.5, while PDK is 4.3 seconds (2009, 4S, 3.8).

I had an '86 911 Turbo. Just the thought of a DCT much less water cooling in that classic chassis makes me nauseous.
On a classic car, manual all the way. For a modern car, I'll take the modern transmission.



Anyway, the point of this thread isn't to debate manual vs DCT. Many other threads for that, both here and on other forums (Rennlist for manual vs PDK, Ferrarichat for Manual vs F1, etc., etc.). I started this thread to discuss the Powershift vs other DCT's, and to extoll its virtues.
 
If you want to see what gear you're in auto, just tap the paddle shifter and it will tell you what gear you're in.

Unless there is a percentage of SCT failures for both, than you really can't compare the two. Focus sales are in the top 3 of all cars sold I believe. The amount of focuses sold in a month is probably the amount of Porsches sold in a year
 
Actually one of the reasons why I like the DCT in the focus (and chose it over the other cars I was looking at) is because the difference in 0-60 between the manual and DCT slight.

Look at the difference between the manual and auto in the FRS/BRZ. It's much wider.
 
I have the 6DCT450 in my diesel Focus. Shifting is amazing and pretty responsive in S mode. It redlines and just keeps the car revving at 5k rpm, 1k below the limit.

As always you need to give it a nice amount of gas to keep the revs high. Kind of sad that autos are moving to CVT which I've heard are boring to drive.
 
As to reliability, from perusing this site, I'm not seeing a lot of issues with the post '15 cars, so hopefully the issues has been resolved. It's a risk I thought was worth taking.
My personal experience suggests you're right. My '12 had problems and the service dept never could get it quite right. My '14 has been fine and never been in the shop at 33k miles (except for a valve cover seep). Only issue is the occasional loud noise at the 2-3 shift - like grinding but not really grinding. IIRC Ford said noises like this are "normal" so I'm not too worried about it.

Issued just have been curbed a bit as it's still the same transmission til it's replacement comes.
I'd still not buy (still a slower transmission vs5speed) one as I wouldn't trust it and I really like rowing the gears and if I had a Porsche I'd opt for one of their silky smooth 6 speeds.
Yes but the problem doesn't seem to be the transmission itself, rather certain components which seem to have been greatly improved, if not outright fixed - see below.

Hence your obvious bias against the DCT despite never actually owning one (as far as I can tell).


See Car and Driver's recent comments (July '16) on the DCT:

We criticized this transmission for harsh, clunky shifting in earlier editions of the Focus, but Ford has significantly smoothed and refined its operation. Most Focus drivers now won’t notice much difference from a traditional torque-converter automatic.

2016 Ford Focus 2.0L Automatic Hatchback ? Review ? Car and Driver
 
Actually one of the reasons why I like the DCT in the focus (and chose it over the other cars I was looking at) is because the difference in 0-60 between the manual and DCT slight.

Look at the difference between the manual and auto in the FRS/BRZ. It's much wider.
I found out early on that if you stomp on the accelerator when you want to take off it bogs and leaves the line rather slowly until the RPM builds up (maybe about a second) then digs in a goes.

But...if you use two feet and hold the brake while you floor the accelerator the car revs up to about 2500 or so (I think; it's been a while I did this) and when you release the brake the car launches much better (even spins the front tires). I bet that shaves the .1 sec off the 0-60...unless the tester ran the best 0-60 using this method in the first place.

By the way, when my car used to lurch in traffic I discovered this method to clean my clutch surface. Worked well a the time. I just expanded to see how it would then launch the car and was pleasantly surprised!
 
BS on the not noticing part. I have driven manual and prefer it over the automatic. But for the last 14 years have driven 2 used Volvos and the trannies on those shift smoothly and effortlessly even with harsh driving. I lean a little on my S40 as its CAI and turbo moves it quite well. The V70 wagon drives like a limo in comparison. But both Volvos shift smoothly and I have had the tranny fluid changed because of mileage not for operating issues. The focus 2015 se model automatic has what I would call a horrible transmission in comparison to ANY other car I have ever driven. '73 AMC Javelin, '69 VW BEETLE, "81 Vanagon, '02 Golf, '03 BEETLE, '99 Volvo V70, '02 Volvo S40. Of all those cars this is the first one I have ever, That's EVER had an issue in how the tranny operates. It is unpredictable in lower gears and thus not suitable for a drivers car. The focus was to be considered a world car, world's best seller and comparable to other world cars such as VW's Golf. Ford you have been singled out. Folks have owned Golfs before and they KNOW what a hatch is. Trying to make excuses for a bad transmission is unacceptable. PERIOD.
 
BS on the not noticing part. I have driven manual and prefer it over the automatic. But for the last 14 years have driven 2 used Volvos and the trannies on those shift smoothly and effortlessly even with harsh driving. I lean a little on my S40 as its CAI and turbo moves it quite well. The V70 wagon drives like a limo in comparison. But both Volvos shift smoothly and I have had the tranny fluid changed because of mileage not for operating issues. The focus 2015 se model automatic has what I would call a horrible transmission in comparison to ANY other car I have ever driven. '73 AMC Javelin, '69 VW BEETLE, "81 Vanagon, '02 Golf, '03 BEETLE, '99 Volvo V70, '02 Volvo S40. Of all those cars this is the first one I have ever, That's EVER had an issue in how the tranny operates. It is unpredictable in lower gears and thus not suitable for a drivers car. The focus was to be considered a world car, world's best seller and comparable to other world cars such as VW's Golf. Ford you have been singled out. Folks have owned Golfs before and they KNOW what a hatch is. Trying to make excuses for a bad transmission is unacceptable. PERIOD.
Mine shifts from 1 to 2 at about 8 mph every single time (selector in D). Through hellacious DFW highway 121 traffic every night. I don't pay attention from 2 to 3; can hardly feel it and without watching tachometer, I would never know.

I love my DCT. Loved both of them. It's not a bad transaxle at all.
 
BS on the not noticing part. I have driven manual and prefer it over the automatic. But for the last 14 years have driven 2 used Volvos and the trannies on those shift smoothly and effortlessly even with harsh driving. I lean a little on my S40 as its CAI and turbo moves it quite well. The V70 wagon drives like a limo in comparison. But both Volvos shift smoothly and I have had the tranny fluid changed because of mileage not for operating issues. The focus 2015 se model automatic has what I would call a horrible transmission in comparison to ANY other car I have ever driven. '73 AMC Javelin, '69 VW BEETLE, "81 Vanagon, '02 Golf, '03 BEETLE, '99 Volvo V70, '02 Volvo S40. Of all those cars this is the first one I have ever, That's EVER had an issue in how the tranny operates. It is unpredictable in lower gears and thus not suitable for a drivers car. The focus was to be considered a world car, world's best seller and comparable to other world cars such as VW's Golf. Ford you have been singled out. Folks have owned Golfs before and they KNOW what a hatch is. Trying to make excuses for a bad transmission is unacceptable. PERIOD.
I think the S60 has the same trans as my diesel Focus. Ford also used it in the Mondeo.
 
Can you all imagine the griping if Ford keeps a DCT for the 2018 and up Focuses? Yeah, I know, extremely unlikely...
I think it would be a good thing. Personally, if i'm going to drive a auto i want it to be a DCT. Ford is pretty new to the DCT game. you figure when VW first started out offering DCT's they probably sucked too and now they work really well. With time i'm sure Ford could offer a really good DCT.
 
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I think it would be a good thing. Personally, if i'm going to drive a auto i want it to be a DCT. Ford is pretty new to the DCT game. you figure when VW first started out offering DCT's they probably sucked too and now they work really well. With time i'm sure Ford could offer a really good DCT.
Can you all imagine the griping if Ford keeps a DCT for the 2018 and up Focuses? Yeah, I know, extremely unlikely...
I wouldn't be surprised if Ford uses the next-gen Getrag 7-speed wet clutch DCT. It's already in use in several Renaults in Europe. I should search for magazine reviews of those models.
 
BS on the not noticing part. I have driven manual and prefer it over the automatic. But for the last 14 years have driven 2 used Volvos and the trannies on those shift smoothly and effortlessly even with harsh driving. I lean a little on my S40 as its CAI and turbo moves it quite well. The V70 wagon drives like a limo in comparison. But both Volvos shift smoothly and I have had the tranny fluid changed because of mileage not for operating issues. The focus 2015 se model automatic has what I would call a horrible transmission in comparison to ANY other car I have ever driven. '73 AMC Javelin, '69 VW BEETLE, "81 Vanagon, '02 Golf, '03 BEETLE, '99 Volvo V70, '02 Volvo S40. Of all those cars this is the first one I have ever, That's EVER had an issue in how the tranny operates. It is unpredictable in lower gears and thus not suitable for a drivers car. The focus was to be considered a world car, world's best seller and comparable to other world cars such as VW's Golf. Ford you have been singled out. Folks have owned Golfs before and they KNOW what a hatch is. Trying to make excuses for a bad transmission is unacceptable. PERIOD.
You obviously don't read the car magazines. There are many complaints about today's transmissions. Most notably the ZF 9-speed in several FCA models, Honda Pilot, Acura TLX and MDX. There are complaints about each of those models. The ZF 8-speed in the Grand Cherokee had some minor compliants about rough shifting.

Apparently transmission tuning is very difficult to get right. Will be interesting to see how the Ford/GM 9- and 10-speeds do. The first review of the F-150 with the 10-speed was very positive.
 
I'm coming up on a year now with the new clutches in my 14 and I've had zero problems with the DCT but 90 percent of my driving is all highway and a little bit of city but I've found my own little things I can due to prevent the shuddering issues. I can't wait till a little more info comes out on the 18 series of the Focus and I hope Ford keeps the DCT because I'm going to be buying a new Focus next year.
 
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