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Discussion starter · #21 ·
The one thing that's troubling, is that it shouldn't be able to drip out from between them if the intake gasket was sealed right.
That makes sense - BUT - there shouldn't be coolant there to begin with. That's the problem, lol.




So separate the intake from the fuel rail (fuel rail has to be attached to the head in order for it to even run) and check to see if the coolant is coming from the intake or from inside the head? Will it even run with the intake separated?

That brings up one question - the 2 coolant lines going into the intake - WTF is the point of them? Hard to believe the intake manifold needs cooling. Can they just be blocked off to test the intake? Or are they there for vacuum?

I'm just completely stumped as to how coolant can get into the combustion chamber if the head isn't cracked somewhere. And it's always with the #3 (third from the passenger side) cylinder....
 
NO it won't run with the intake removed from the head!

This is to look for the leak, and prove where it comes from.

If the two aren't even connected, and you see coolant dripping out of the intake, you can be VERY sure that the problem is there!

The large metal intake has it's temperature stabilized by the coolant that flows through it. Warms it up faster for better operation when cold, keeps it from getting to hot when warm.

Again, it's REALLY common to get a hose mis-routed, and end up with coolant getting into the head from the intake. A cracked one is not common, but neither is a crack not found in a rebuilt head.
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
Gotcha...it read as tho you were saying to unbolt the intake and let it run, but you mean for the pressure test. THAT makes sense, lol.

I've checked the lines going into the intake about 50 times and matched them up to the other focus I have, countless others at the JY and as many photos as I could fine online. Just for kicks, can you provide a pic of the proper connections?
 
Wish I could, know there's a pic in here from the back with all the connections labeled but where to find it for sure isn't in the memory banks.

Heck, just for the Halibut you could detach and block off the coolant hoses to the intake for a check, blow out any coolant in there. That would give you the running test desired without taking anything major apart.
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
I found this pic from here that was posted a while ago, but there were errors on it (vac to booster and vac to valve cover are switched), but that's the only one I could find. However, the coolant lines in this picture match up with every other Focus I've looked at, even the other one I have that runs just fine.

 
Good work, that's the picture I was thinking of.

Unhook those hoses and blow it dry (pinch them off or plug them of course) then see if the problem persists. At least that would prove or rule out an intake leak.
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
Well, I pulled the 2 coolant hoses leading into the intake and have the same damn problem. No change.

So now here's my logic:

-Coolant can only get into the combustion chamber 2 ways: through the intake and from the block, through the head gasket and into the combustion chamber.
-I've eliminated the possibility of it coming through the intake, so it's coming from below.
-I've replaced the head gasket 3 times, and the head 2 times. I find it very hard to believe I could coincidentally be having the same problem with all of those parts.
-If there were a crack in the block, this still wouldn't explain coolant getting into the combustion chamber. Also, there is no evidence of coolant getting into the oil. The oil is still clean, no bubbles or discoloration. Clean as it was the day I put it in.
-^ same logic applies to the piston rings. Bad rings wouldn't explain coolant in the combustion chamber. Also, there is no smoke at all.
-I've eliminated every part, except for the block itself.

The machine shop sleeved the same cylinder that is getting coolant in the combustion chamber. I checked it for level at least a dozen times, once when I got it back from the shop, again before I installed head gasket #2, again before cylinder head #2 and head gasket #3. There is ZERO sign of any warping, and divots, any cracks....I'm stumped, but I also know that I might not be able to see them with my small straight edge.

The only thing I can think of is to pull the motor (again), strip it down (again) and take it back to the machine shop. I'll obviously talk with the machine shop before I do any of this. This just friggin sucks, I'm so fed up with this damn thing. I honestly just want to get rid of this thing, don't really care if I take a $1,000 loss on it anymore, lol.

Any thoughts?
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
I know, I know. Still doesn't make sense tho...I checked the mating surface between the block and head at least a dozen times, the machine shop supposedly checked it too. And it's a reputable shop too, but I understand that things happen. I spent the money on a straight edge and couldn't get the smallest feeler gage that I could buy to pass anywhere.

Either way, the motor has to come out and be stripped down. I'll be pulling it tomorrow and taking it back to the machine shop on Monday. FML...
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
Machine shop called, can't find a mother ******g thing wrong with the block. I can't even tell you how mad this makes me!!! lol

I was wrong earlier, they sleeved the #2 cylinder, I was having problems with the #3 cylinder. I reused all of the old pistons except for the shattered one that went into cylinder #3. Exact same piston as the others, same exact rings, same exact connecting rod....I'm completely frustrated and stumped...
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
forgot about this thread...I meant to keep up with it but ended up moving on from this car. I completely rebuilt the engine twice and couldn't ever figure out the problem. 2 VERY experienced engine building friends (well, experienced with older small block chevy's anyway) couldn't figure it out. The machine shop that did the work twice couldn't figure it out. I scoured the internet for hours and couldn't come up with anything helpful.

The problem was coolant getting into the combustion chamber some how (at least I think that was the problem), fouling out the plugs and eventually getting to the point where I couldn't keep it running enough to go even drive one block. When I would open the oil filler cap with the motor running, there was quite a bit of oil splattering and spitting around inside the head. I have no idea if this is normal or not, the guy who bought the car said it wasn't, but I didn't even care at that point.

I got sick of it sitting in my garage so I sold it as-is and took it in the shorts.

The only thing I didn't look into was the oil pump. I noticed that a few parts in the rebuild kit were incorrect, like the piston rings and some gaskets, but the new pump and everything else went right on with no issues. I don't know if there's a difference in oil pumps or not, but that was literally the only part of the engine that I didn't replace a 2nd time.

A 3rd rebuild and more money dumped into it was the last thing I wanted to do at that point, so I sent it down the road and honestly haven't looked back since. To say that I hate that car is an understatement, lol.
 
Post #32 mentions the #3 broke a piston, the #2 being sleeved. Possible crack in #3 and sometimes you can't see them, only a block water pressure test finds it. BTDT. Had to make a custom plate to do it. Have done the same to a head too. You could not see the cracks that showed up when they were cleaned up. They were sure there though.

No water in oil claimed (we all make mistakes) but think about that 'oil spitting' going on in post #34 and what oil does when you get water in it in the frying pan...........

Why once you take on a SPI with seriously broken pistons you are asking for it. Any piston breaking up commonly stresses the holy hannah out of the cylinder wall and they can crack very easy under that.

I learned early on when rebuilding NEVER choose a motor block that pistons have broken up in regardless of how good the price is. Walk away, walk away..........................once the skirts have broken away (not that hard with cast pistons) the much stronger upper main circle of the ring lands has no stabilization any longer and that great 1 inch thick 4 inch diameter circle then turns sideways under rod action and then wedges in the cylinder to crack it.
 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
I mentioned that I had the block completely machined TWICE, the second time they charged me for basically wasting their time, since nothing was found, pressure test came back great, magnaflux didn't show anything....

Obviously something was wrong, but I flat out gave up on it.

No offense, but I've rebuild a couple SPI's and have seen many on this forum rebuilt after grenading a piston (some had 3 shattered pistons).

Doesn't really matter tho, the car is looooong gone and I'm happy about that.
 
And so you have......................but what I say still applies, some and probably way less than 50% will be failures. However, build enough of them and you WILL get bit, you just did. We had hundreds of race engines go through our shop back in the day and you see things sometimes that make no sense until you give it thought, and more than passing.

There is no magic to any of it, accept that it is what it is. You just never found the issue, it happens.
 
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