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Grey Friar
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We know Tom is dead wrong about many important things, i.e. he keeps posting "Trump 2020", but he's not completely wrong about gloves. Simply Googling this phrase "covid contagious on surfaces" will yield many pages of links to articles about the relative difficulty of catching COVID-19 from surfaces. It is unlikely to catch it from surfaces, but it is possible. It's unlikely, because it is a "droplet infection" and a specific set of conditions is needed for it to successfully pass from one person to another... you would have to touch a bit-o-spit (maybe invisibly small) and then touch you own eye, nose, mouth, or inside your ear with the exact same spot, before some unknown period of time passed. That time period varies, with the virus being able to stay viable for longer periods on plastics and metals, than it does on dry skin or fabric or paper or cardboard (also, moisture and temperature factors are involved... like, if skin is wet, it may extend the period of time the virus is viable, but haven't found any specific test info about that and covid).

Contrary to the earliest suppositions about the virus, which were just guesses that it might linger on all surfaces for a long period of time and be able to enter the body through a variety ports, it is now known to enter only through mucus membranes (like a cold or flu) and possibly lungs, if you breathe moist air from an infected person that is close to you. As said much earlier, virus' outer coats break-down when exposed to oxygen (especially ozone or nitric oxide) for a period of time that is different for different viruses (i.e. measles persists freely in the air for a relatively long time). For corona-viruses that period is a couple of hours, but could be a coupe of days under perfect conditions. According to the epidemiology experts, wearing gloves MAY help because they keep you consciously aware of your hands (that something is odd about them), so for most people, that would help them not touch their face with their hand... minimizing likelihood of infection.
 

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The CDC did a update just a few days ago about how maybe it's not nearly as spreadable as once thought from surfaces.













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Discussion Starter #263
If you dont want to wear gloves then please dont , Me/Us were going to , If I walk in behind some one that sneezes or has it on there hands not knowing they have it and it gets on the buggy handle and I touch it 5 min later and rub my face or eyes with my hands or touch my Wife I instantly increase the % of getting COV19

CDC said gloves wouldnt help at first then said gloves would help so ?????

Shopping center bugging are petri dishes for thousands of viruses , diseases , feces etc etc so for me I will wear Gloves

Something as cheap and easy to prevent it as wearing gloves thats for me

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter #264
We know Tom is dead wrong about many important things, i.e. he keeps posting "Trump 2020", but he's not completely wrong about gloves..
Trump 2020 , I do that just for you ! LOL , Love you Brother

Tom
 

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More on Tara Reade............her lawyer just dumped her, while claiming he still 'believes' her. Maybe it has to do with her claiming a degree from a school she did not have, or maybe it's because she claimed to be an expert witness in domestic violence court cases and now a lot of those case judgements are being re-looked at in light of her possible lying or other incompetence influencing things there. She may be looking at multiple perjury charges now.

Poor girl........
 

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Grey Friar
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Makes perfect sense to me... Biden has no history of sexual molestation (unlike Trump), his history just includes being overly friendly and invading personal space with physical touch/hugs/kisses/back-rubs. NOT a predator type. Just goes to reinforce that it's never a good idea to rush-to-judgement, just because someone makes an isolated accusation... especially when positive publicity can be gained due to accused seeking public office, or when accuser has a history of either false accusations or opposing political views.

All men are not innocent = all women are not innocent... shouldn't go-off-the-rails on either gender.

If they dig deeper, I'm guessing they'll find she is connected to QAnon... bunch of sickpricks who believe in every conspiracy theory you can invent or imagine, but their favorite rallying cry "theory" is that all democrats are pedophiles, and that there is a "deep state" of child trafficking and prostitution to satisfy the "evil desires" of every Democrat in office. That's what happens when the DEA and ATF spend their time fighting imported drugs and don't crack down (pun intended) on meth labs that exist ALL OVER the entire country... billion dollar "industry", turning bored neo-con-radio-listeners into insane raving lunatics. It's literally a National Security issue... domestic terrorism.
 

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Grey Friar
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The old saying, "There are two types of people in the world: those who think there are two types of people in the world, and those who don't", may be simply a good criticism of over-simplification, but it may also be a guide to better thinking/acting. There ARE going to be two main types of people going forward: 1) people who continue to wear PPE of some type in public, regardless of trends in Pop Culture, 2) people who volunteer to be the in-vivo producers and vectors of the next, far more contagious and more deadly virus. Check out the phylogeny graph of COVID mutation, part way down the page: Two Supertypes of Coronavirus: "East Asian" and "European"

The bad news is, this virus is clearly not going away. It is not "getting better". Certain strains of it are becoming, and will continue to become, worse. The way this virus is changing, appears to mean it may eventually start to kill off anyone (healthy or not), if a person is "unlucky" enough to encounter one of it's more deadly configurations. It will change society in some way, regardless of whether anyone wants it to or not, because there can never be a vaccine for it, and being "young and fit" may not help a person avoid death, after enough transmission of mutant varieties has occurred, due to those who refuse to change their habits. Except for a few random "lucky" ones, it will only be those PPE-clad individuals who are also capable of being attentive to the actions and proximity of others, who will be alive to witness the shape of society in the further future. I hope and pray the epidemiology will change before people start to feel the need to raid houses looking for food stores, but the future appears to be dystopian right now... due to the #2 kinds of people, who are helping COVID get worse.
 

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Doom and gloom terrible we are all going to die crap.
This is not the end we have survived so many things. We will survive this I will not have your negative view. Viruses mutate nothing new about that.

Life is not worth living in fear. Life is not worth living having to hide in a cave. I would rather be dead than be broke poor and homeless and yes I do mean that. I'm sure many of us would rather be dead than live in a world of fear, poverty, starvation and homelessness that sounds like a nightmare with death it's all over.
I have always had that mindset though I would rather be dead than be brain-damaged, I would rather be dead than have a major physical disability to me life isn't worth living if you can't function and participate in it. If you can't be a provider then you are a leech now I have no problem taking care of a few leeches but I refuse to be one myself.
Even the best will not be able to keep this up 6 months a year 2 years. People will break we are a social species we are not designed to hide from each other we will not keep this up. This even includes Tom.

I deeply care about life and have no problem making sacrifices, but I know what it feels like to be financially hopeless I also know what it feels like to see death. They both have a very similar feeling and that is true helplessness. Pain and suffering is extremely difficult to watch very painful.
We have 8 billion people on this planet the world has to function we have to have an economy that allows people to live and prosper. I believe in our genetics we will build a immunity to this virus like we have with so many. Oh but the virus mutates all viruses mutate. Remember this a virus that mutates to kill everyone is a bad design it won't last long. A virus that can spread around and keep people alive is much more successful.

We are so much more capable than you seem to realize.


I try to think about what were people's attitudes towards all of the other viruses and sicknesses that killed off huge percentages of the human population. I wonder what type of view they had was it a more Doom and gloom view than what we have now or was it more optimistic. I bet many thought the world was over but somehow we are here today.


I have a 99.9% optimistic view that I am right and you are wrong.

I can post 10,000 articles with an optimistic view you can post 10,000 articles with a negative world is on fire this is the end articles. It's a individuals choice what they choose to feed themselves with. From what you post you have a much more negative viewpoint about life in general than I do.


Simple question you don't have to answer. Would you rather live in a bunker for the rest of your life, or would you rather live in a world where if you participate in it there is a 10% chance that you could die.
My answer well you already know I would rather take the chance of death. I believe with enough time that would be anybody's answer may take 5 years but that bunker is going to get lonely fast.













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There is no vaccine for any Coronavirus currently. The Coronavirus being what we call the common cold. Do you really expect society to stay locked down for this? Insanity.
 

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Grey Friar
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You guys are carrying my observations way over the edge... I said, "people who continue to wear PPE of some type in public, regardless of trends in Pop Culture"... that means they continue to wear PPE (and observe distancing), it says nothing about staying at home forever and ever, quaking in your boots about when the boogyman is going to come. "Bunkers"??? "Locked down"???... please. And then the biggest absurdity, "common cold"??? Try to keep coloring within the lines. If you two want to go off the rails in another direction, then go ahead, but don't try putting words in my mouth... I never said anything remotely like either of you are implying... if you want to disagree, fine, but at least disagree with something I actually said.

Go ahead and be as optimistic as you want, just don't put yourself above everybody else and stop wearing PPE when in close contact with people, or stop maintaining distance, or both (if you're real vigilant) going forward. Also, I'm not talking about this year or next spring (I'd be surprised if SARS-2 became deadly that fast, besides, it can't get deadly that fast because all the signs of the 4-horsemen are not lined up yet for the "end time" to be here). All I mentioned was that it will "change society"... I'm sticking with that, I'm optimistic that I'm 99.99% right. If you guys think we are going "back to normal" anytime soon, or ever, I strongly disagree, and I said why (if you read carefully what I actually said, and not read your own fears into it)... the changes will be 1) that we will see a certain percentage of people wearing PPE in public all the time (similar to what they do in Japan or Korea when people who are sick must go outdoors), and 2) that those who don't will eventually bring on the real BS (the boogyman that even a bunker won't be able to stop) in some unknowable amount of time, once this virus goes through enough mutations, and they will die in the process.

But to follow the idea zaca set forth... I agree that there is a huge challenge presented here... it's between liberty and security. It always a balance, like, The Patriot Act took away the guarantees of our liberty in favor of increasing our security. It was just Memorial Day, where those of us who giveashit pay homage to the many, many people (from the Revolutionary War until we started fighting other-people's wars and foreign drug lords), who have given their lives and/or health for the idea of America continuing to be able to claim Liberty as a reality and a cause.

There IS a "quality of life" question here... it's parallel to other medical decisions... some of us would rather be hooked up to life support in order to hold on to every second of mortal-time, and others of us would rather die quickly of a heart attack, or die doing something risky that we love doing, or have a Living Will (I have one of those). There is also a "value of life" question raising it's ugly head... do the old and weak deserve to live, or is it alright to kill them all so some of us can party harder? The question of Liberty or Security, seen through the lenses of "quality" and "value".

The people who I labeled as "1" stay engaged with society and retain respect for life, but they just look different, so they "change society" in only a minor way. The asshats I labeled as "2" have some issue with their expectations for their life and their respect for other's life, and won't behave cooperatively... they are the ones who will really cause the most dramatic dystopian change in all of civilization, once another version of this virus (or a completely different one) hits the big-time... and if SARS-2 doesn't do it, another one will, 99.99% guaranteed, because of the "2s".
 

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You guys are carrying my observations way over the edge... I said, "people who continue to wear PPE of some type in public, regardless of trends in Pop Culture"... that means they continue to wear PPE (and observe distancing), it says nothing about staying at home forever and ever, quaking in your boots about when the boogyman is going to come. "Bunkers"??? "Locked down"???... please. And then the biggest absurdity, "common cold"??? Try to keep coloring within the lines. If you two want to go off the rails in another direction, then go ahead, but don't try putting words in my mouth... I never said anything remotely like either of you are implying... if you want to disagree, fine, but at least disagree with something I actually said.

Go ahead and be as optimistic as you want, just don't put yourself above everybody else and stop wearing PPE when in close contact with people, or stop maintaining distance, or both (if you're real vigilant) going forward. Also, I'm not talking about this year or next spring (I'd be surprised if SARS-2 became deadly that fast, besides, it can't get deadly that fast because all the signs of the 4-horsemen are not lined up yet for the "end time" to be here). All I mentioned was that it will "change society"... I'm sticking with that, I'm optimistic that I'm 99.99% right. If you guys think we are going "back to normal" anytime soon, or ever, I strongly disagree, and I said why (if you read carefully what I actually said, and not read your own fears into it)... the changes will be 1) that we will see a certain percentage of people wearing PPE in public all the time (similar to what they do in Japan or Korea when people who are sick must go outdoors), and 2) that those who don't will eventually bring on the real BS (the boogyman that even a bunker won't be able to stop) in some unknowable amount of time, once this virus goes through enough mutations, and they will die in the process.

But to follow the idea zaca set forth... I agree that there is a huge challenge presented here... it's between liberty and security. It always a balance, like, The Patriot Act took away the guarantees of our liberty in favor of increasing our security. It was just Memorial Day, where those of us who giveashit pay homage to the many, many people (from the Revolutionary War until we started fighting other-people's wars and foreign drug lords), who have given their lives and/or health for the idea of America continuing to be able to claim Liberty as a reality and a cause.

There IS a "quality of life" question here... it's parallel to other medical decisions... some of us would rather be hooked up to life support in order to hold on to every second of mortal-time, and others of us would rather die quickly of a heart attack, or die doing something risky that we love doing, or have a Living Will (I have one of those). There is also a "value of life" question raising it's ugly head... do the old and weak deserve to live, or is it alright to kill them all so some of us can party harder? The question of Liberty or Security, seen through the lenses of "quality" and "value".

The people who I labeled as "1" stay engaged with society and retain respect for life, but they just look different, so they "change society" in only a minor way. The asshats I labeled as "2" have some issue with their expectations for their life and their respect for other's life, and won't behave cooperatively... they are the ones who will really cause the most dramatic dystopian change in all of civilization, once another version of this virus (or a completely different one) hits the big-time... and if SARS-2 doesn't do it, another one will, 99.99% guaranteed, because of the "2s".
I still wear a facemask to protect others when I am out. We should have been isolating and protecting the most vulnerable while everyone else went about their business. My analogy to the common cold Coronavirus is legitimate due to the fact that there is no vaccine and never will be and the other being the lethality for immune compromised and vitamin D deficient individuals. This lockdown of healthy individuals to protect 1% of the population is ridiculous and unnecessary.
 

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Members here are disagreeing with the World Health Organization recommendations!
306584
306585


Anyway, what's up with the reusable cloth masks? Can we all agree that those are charade?
 

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Grey Friar
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Yeah, the lock-down can't go on forever, but it was necessary to keep the health care system from becoming immediately overwhelmed. That said, people have to "get it", i.e. we all have to understand that everybody must be responsible to each other, or the dystopian future I outlined WILL occur, and our health care system will become overwhelmed, and the whole lock-down we have been going through will have been for nothing. It's the "2s" who are the problem... but they always have been and always will be our biggest problem... it's not just overpopulation that is killing the planet and will eventually ruin everything for humans, it's that a large number of people either refuse to accept responsibility or are incapable of it. Reaches into everything from child rearing to killing someone for their shoes, this virus is just a new thing that points an arrow directly at the problem-people.

BTW, healthy people are not singled out for lock-down... certain job-types have been shutdown and certain activities have been stopped, but that had to happen, because we're not protecting a paltry "1%", we're protecting the integrity of the future. You can't just say, "go ahead and kill all the diabetics, asthmatics, cancer fighters, seriously injured, indoor workers, obese, weak-hearted, and old". That defines a sociopathic society, and that kind of a society is one that deserves to be destroyed.
 

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Grey Friar
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... View attachment 306585

Anyway, what's up with the reusable cloth masks? Can we all agree that those are charade?
This assumes the person KNOWS they are sick/contagious (coughing or sneezing), with SARS-2 a person doesn't necessarily know they are contagious for several days before they show obvious symptoms. That requires testing, accurate testing, to be effective. PPE is for the potential that you have it and don't know it yet.
 

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I really wish people stayed home and let the virus run its course. I live with my parents still, my dad is a first responder, and my mom has a compromised immune system and stays at home and has done so for years unless she has to go to a doctors appt. and having more people out in the public with this virus going on is putting my whole family at risk. It is much harder to become infected if you dont leave your home unless you absolutely have to. That should include people who have essential jobs or have people that need to go to said places of business that are open to facilitate the needs of the public. I have 2 essential jobs, in completely different fields. One is a grocery store with a gas station attached (where I work) so of course we are considered essential, but Im seeing a whole bunch of people coming in for their cigarettes, scratchers, and other nonessential items. If you have a valid reason to go out, like buying groceries for the next week for you and your family then thats acceptable, but if you want to go out to grab a carton of cigs for yourself maybe you should reconsider going out. Now my other job consists of keeping the internet running smoothly, i know its a first world problem to keep the internet running and all but that falls under the category of essential but many governments are thinking the same way. So everyone please relax, stay home (unless you need something essential), and browse the videos on Youtube or Netflix or even Pornhub, or do some shopping on online sites or watch cable. I really want to do these things and all you dont realize how lucky you are to stay at home and do pretty much nothing. and i get you arent getting paychecks but really all you are doing is draining your savings by going out and trying to have fun. Hopefully this makes someone stay home that otherwise would have gone out.
 
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