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The problem with our own homeless is two-fold (at least), by some surveys 80% of homeless people live that way by choice. The rest are insane or criminals hiding out. Of the 80%, many are runaways from bad domestic situations and don't want to be found, and several are war vets who can't find a way to fit-in anymore and don't like biker gangs, or can't afford a hog.
I don't know where you got those statistics, but I don't think they're even close to accurate. I will look up more info later, but I can't right now. Things to do.
 

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Here's a link to a site with some good news info on homelessness. http://www.homeaid.org/HomeAid-Stories/69/top-causes-of-homelessness

They didn't mention it on this site, but there's a growing problem of homelessness for older women. Sometimes it's because a spouse died or left, sometimes it's because of medical issues and expenses, including being forced to take time of work due to illness or injury, and not having enough paid leave to cover it.

Most people are not out there because they want to be. You mentioned people fleeing domestic violence as among those "homeless by choice". Do you really consider becoming homeless rather than being beaten and maybe killed as a choice?

Here's another link for more information. https://nlchp.org
 

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Grey Friar
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Yes, it depends on how you define "choice". In this case the choice is between being able to continue to live, and live relatively freely, verses being held as a slave or "whipping-boy". That is not to say those are ideal choices to choose from, just that given a lack of social resources or inaction on the part of police and/or support agencies, there are significant numbers of people who choose to escape their tormenter(s) by the most immediate means available... running away into anonymity. For instance, minors who have no legal standing or credit rating, who have a violent/drug addict/drunken father and a complicit/drug addict/drunken mother, who have to return home and don't know how to access or navigate government/private services that might help them, sometimes take the step to escape on their own, if they have the courage/will. So too with battered women, of rapist/drug addict/drunken domestic-partners. Also, the numbers of those who "choose" homelessness includes people who are clinically paranoid (PTSD or chemical imbalance caused by drug abuse or genetic flaw), and are afraid to trust social services enough to allow the system to help them.

The word "choose" wasn't meant to be interpreted as the best choice from a complete list of alternatives, it is simply the best choice the person could make given the range of choices they understood they had to choose from, whether they were correct or not, informed or not.

I recently watched a documentary on the growing problem of homeless people camping out in Portland, OR, a place currently being overrun worse than San Diego, LA, or other major city. They attempted to interview as many people as they could convince to talk to them. Of course, a number of them were too paranoid to comply, probably thinking they were being set-up, but even among the paranoid, some had enough guts, or had a high enough level of despair to talk. Their estimate was 80% or greater, for the number that claimed their lifestyle as a choice they had to make, given their previous circumstance. The rest were either, helplessly insane/addled/confused, either by age, illness, or injury, and had no support to help them afford private care or access government care, or they were petty criminals escaping justice (the investigators assumed a number were felons, and that they were among the group that refused to be interviewed... having reason other than paranoia to remain anonymous). Also, within the 80%, were a proud and fairly large fraction that thought of themselves as "Robin Hoods", and/or other counter-culturalists who refused to support and participate in "the system", and rather chose to live outside it.
 

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It sounds like the documentary investigators made some assumptions and estimates that aren't accurate.

Sometimes that "choice" of living homeless is nothing more than be homeless or die. Not really much of a choice.

I think there's a pretty small percentage people who are homeless because they truly wish to be. Saying "homeless by choice" is not the same thing as "homeless because they want to be", if you call homelessness or be beaten and maybe killed a real choice. Nor is it a real choice when a person loses a home for whatever reason, job loss, injury, illness, the landlord sold the place and they couldn't get the money for another, (not just monthly rent to consider, there's almost always 1st and last months rent up front, plus a security deposit, and sometimes payment for a background check) and what's the choice then? Live homeless or commit suicide? You can call that a choice, too.
 

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I tried to figure out how to share this pdf from my phone, I can't just link to it, the best I could do is copy and paste, and hope it's coherent. It's pretty long, and includes references for where the info came from. This was last updated in 2015, things have probably gotten worse since then.

2000 M Street, N.W., Suite 210, Washington, DC 20036 │ www.nlchp.org │ PHONE: 202.638.2535 │ FAX: 202.638.2737
N A T I O N A L L A W C E N T E R
ON HOMELESSNESS & POVERTY
Homelessness in America: Overview of Data and Causes
The National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty currently estimates that each year at least 2.5 to 3.5
million Americans sleep in shelters, transitional housing, and public places not meant for human
habitation. At least an additional 7.4 million have lost their own homes and are doubled-up with others
due to economic necessity.
But data related to homelessness are far from exact. Part of the difficulty is that there are different
definitions of homelessness now in use. For example, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban
development (HUD) uses a narrow definition largely limited to people living in shelters, in transitional
housing and in public places.1
The U.S. Department of Education (DoE) uses a broader definition that
includes families who are doubled-up with others due to economic necessity. Another difficulty concerns
methodology. HUD reports annual “Point-in-Time” counts of the “unsheltered” homeless population;
however, the methodology used to collect those numbers varies by community and is often deeply
flawed.2 HUD also reports annual counts of the sheltered population; this number varies with shelter
capacity, which depends on variables such as available funding. 3
The numbers and percentages below derive from different sources; many are from the HUD counts and
thus must be viewed with caution. Others are based on DoE data, and reflect the more expansive
definition; these also are likely undercounts since not all homeless children are counted. The numbers thus
may not be consistent.
Overall population
 Before the 2008 recession, an estimated 2.5 to 3 million men, women, and children were
experiencing homelessness each year (using the HUD definition), including a total of 1.35 million
children, and over a million people working full or part-time but unable to pay for housing.4
Since
then, indications are that the crisis has deepened:
o The number of people who have lost their homes and are living doubled-up with family or
friends due to economic necessity remained at 7.4 million people in 2012 (the last year for
which data is available), consistent with 2011, but some states saw as much as an 80%
increase.5
o Over 1.2 million school children were homeless (using the DoE definition) during the
2012-2013 school year, an 8% increase over the previous school year.6 Almost 2.5 million
children overall were homeless in 2013, an 8% increase over 2012.
7
o A 2014 survey in the Law Center’s report, Welcome Home: The Rise of Tent Cities in the
United States, showed media reports of tent cities in 46 states across the country.8
o According to a June 2014 report by the Joint Center for Housing Studies at Harvard
University, there is now a crisis in affordable rental housing.9
In 2012, more than one out
of every four renters (27%) paid over 50% of their income in rent.10 The number of cost
burdened renters has increased each year since 2007.11
o According to the same report, racial and ethnic minorities are disproportionately affected.12

In 2012, 27% of African-American households paid over 50% of their incomes in rent,
along with 24% of Hispanic households and 21% of Asian households; only 14% of White
households paid over 50% of their incomes in rent.13o The safety net has failed to provide adequate resources. Only one in four of those poor
enough to qualify for low-income housing assistance receives it.14
Demographics
 According to data collected by HUD, over the course of 2012 the “sheltered” homeless population
was:
o 63% male; 37% female15 (data based on sheltered adults)
o 83.7% non-Hispanic/non-Latino; 16.3% Hispanic/Latino16
o 38.9% White, non-Hispanic; 9.5% White, Hispanic; 39.4% Black or African American;
5% other single race; 7.2% multiple races17
o 22.6% under age 18; 23.5% 18 to 30; 35.0% 31 to 50; 15.6% 51-61; 3.2% 62 and older 18
o 63.1% single-person household19
o 38.6% disabled20 (data based on sheltered adults)
 When compared to the total population and those living in poverty, those who are homeless are
more likely to be adult, male, African American, not elderly, unaccompanied/alone, and
disabled.21
o In 2010, one out of every 141 persons in Black families stayed in a homeless shelter,
compared with one out of every 990 persons in White families.22
o Black persons in families represented 38.8% of sheltered persons in families in 2010,
though they only made up 12.1% of the entire U.S. family population.23
Children, youth, and families
 People in families made up 37.4% of the total sheltered and unsheltered homeless population in
2012.24

 The proportion of homeless people who used emergency shelters and transitional housing as part
of a family increased from 30% to 35% from 2007 to 2010, with the majority of homeless families
consisting of single mothers with young children.25
 About 2.5 million children, or one in every 30, were homeless in 2013, an increase of 64% since
2007.
26
 From 2011 to 2012, the number of unaccompanied children in shelter increased by 28%.27
 For the 2012-2013 school year, 1,258,182 students were identified as homeless, an increase of
7.6% over the previous year.28 Of those students identified as homeless, 75% were living
“doubled-up” with family/friends; 16% were living in shelters; 6% were living in hotels/motels;
and 3% were living in some type of unsheltered location.29
Veterans
 On a single night in January 2014, veterans accounted for about 11.3% of all homeless adults.30
 During a 12 month period from October 2011 to September 2012, homeless veterans accounted
for one in 156 veterans.31
Domestic violence survivors
 In a 2014 survey of 25 US cities, 15% of all homeless adults were identified as survivors of
domestic violence.32
 In a national census of domestic violence services conducted in September 2013, 36,348 victims
of domestic violence received housing services from domestic violence programs, which includes
emergency shelters and transitional housing, in a 24-hour period.33

 The same domestic violence services census found that 60% of requests that service providers
were not able to meet were those for housing (emergency shelter and transitional housing), with a
total of 5,778 requests unmet.34
Causes of homelessness
 Insufficient income and lack of affordable housing are the leading causes of homelessness:
o In 2012, 10.3 million renters (approximately one in four) had “extremely low incomes”
(ELI) as classified by HUD.35
In that same year, there were only 5.8 million rental units
affordable to the more than 10 million people identified as ELI.
36
o Additionally, only 31 out of every 100 of these affordable units were actually available to
people identified as ELI.37
 After paying their rent and utilities, 75% of ELI households end up with less than half of their
income left to pay for necessities such as food, medicine, transportation, or childcare.38
 The foreclosure crisis also played, and continues to play, a significant role in homelessness:
o In 2008, state and local homeless groups reported a 61% rise in homelessness since the
foreclosure crisis began.39
o Approximately 40% of families facing eviction due to foreclosure are renters; the problem
may continue to worsen as renters represent a rising segment of the U.S. population.40
 For women in particular, domestic violence is a leading cause of homelessness.41
 According to the most recent annual survey by the U.S. Conference of Mayors, major cities across
the country report that top causes of homelessness among families were: (1) lack of affordable
housing, (2) unemployment, (3) poverty, and (4) low wages, in that order.42 The same report found
that the top four causes of homelessness among unaccompanied individuals were (1) lack of
affordable housing, (2) unemployment, (3) poverty, (4) mental illness and the lack of needed
services, and (5) substance abuse and the lack of needed services.43

1 The McKinney-Vento Homeless Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 11302(a)-(b) (2012). With the reauthorization of the
McKinney-Vento Homeless Assistance Act in 2009 as the Homeless Emergency Assistance and Rapid Transition to Housing
(HEARTH) Act, the HUD definition of “homeless” was expanded to include an individual who is exiting an institution where
he or she temporarily resided; an individual or family who is at the imminent risk of losing their housing and has no resources
to secure new permanent housing; unaccompanied youth and homeless families with children and youth who are defined as
homeless under other federal statutes; and an individual or family who is experiencing domestic violence and other dangerous
or life-threatening conditions such as dating violence, sexual assault, and stalking, etc. However, HUD uses the older, narrower
definition in its counts. The narrow definition is sometimes referred to as “literal” homelessness. See U.S. Department of
Housing & Urban Development, THE 2014 ANNUAL HOMELESS ASSESSMENT REPORT TO CONGRESS, PART 1 POINT-IN-TIME ESTIMATES OF
HOMELESSNESS 2 (Oct. 2014), https://www.hudexchange.info/resources/documents/2014-AHAR-Part1.pdf.
2 Maria Foscarinis. Homeless problem bigger than our leaders think: Column, USA Today, Jan. 16, 2014,
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/01/16/homeless-problem-obama-america-recession-column/4539917/; Kim
Hopper et al., Estimating Numbers of Unsheltered Homeless People Through Plant-Capture and Post count Survey Methods,
98 Am. J. Pub. Health 1438, 1442 (2008), http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2005.083600.
3 The most comprehensive and reliable data are from a survey conducted in 1996 by Martha Burt [Laudan Y. Aron, Edgar Lee,
and Jesse Valente] and published in 2001 by the Urban Institute, [Martha R. Burt et al., Helping America’s Homeless:
Emergency Shelter Or Affordable Housing? 47-50, The Urban Institute Press (2001).This study found that, using a narrow
definition of homelessness, about 1 million were homeless at any given point in time and about 3.5 million were homeless over
the course of a year. Unfortunately, it has not been updated since then.
4
See National Alliance to End Homelessness, HOMELESSNESS LOOMS AS POTENTIAL OUTCOME OF RECESSION (2009),
http://www.endhomelessness.org/page/-/files/2161_file_Projected_Increases_in_Homelessness.pdf.
5 National Alliance to End Homelessness, THE STATE OF HOMELESSNESS IN AMERICA 2014, 41 (2014),
http://b.3cdn.net/naeh/d1b106237807ab260f_qam6ydz02.pdf.
6 National Center for Homeless Education, EDUCATION FOR HOMELESS CHILDREN AND YOUTHS: CONSOLIDATED STATE PERFORMANCE
REPORT DATA 2 (2014), http://center.serve.org/nche/downloads/data-comp-1011-1213.pdf.
7 The National Center on Family Homelessness, AMERICA’S YOUNGEST OUTCASTS: A REPORT CARD ON CHILD HOMELESSNESS 6 (Nov.
2014), http://www.homelesschildrenamerica.org/mediadocs/280.pdf.
8 National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty & Yale University Law School Allard K. Lowenstein Human Rights
Clinic, WELCOME HOME: THE RISE OF TENT CITIES IN THE UNITED STATES (2013),http://nlchp.org/documents/WelcomeHome_TentCities.
9
See Joint Center for Housing Studies of Harvard University, THE STATE OF THE NATION’S HOUSING 22-26 (2014),
http://www.jchs.harvard.edu/sites/jchs.harvard.edu/files/sonhr14_txt_bw-full.pdf.
10 Id. at 27
11 Id.
12 Id.
13 Id. at 27, 28.
14 Id. at 30.
15 U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, THE 2012 ANNUAL HOMELESS ASSESSMENT REPORT (AHAR) TO CONGRESS
VOLUME II: ESTIMATES OF HOMELESSNESS IN THE UNITED STATES 1-8 (Sept. 2013),
https://www.hudexchange.info/resources/documents/2012-AHAR-Volume-2.pdf.
16 Id. at 1-9.
17 Id.
18 Id. at 1-8.
19 Id. at 1-11.
20 Id.
21 U.S. States Conference of Mayors, Hunger and Homelessness Survey: A STATUS ON HUNGER AND HOMELESS IN AMERICA’S CITIES –
A 25-CITY SURVEY 2 (Dec. 2014), http://www.usmayors.org/pressreleases/uploads/2014/1211-report-hh.pdf.
22 Institute for Children, Poverty & Homelessness, INTERGENERATIONAL DISPARITIES EXPERIENCED BY HOMELESS BLACK FAMILIES 1
(Mar. 2012), http://www.icphusa.org/filelibrary/ICPH_Homeless Black Families.pdf.
23 Ralph da Costa Nunez, Homelessness: It’s About Race, Not Just Poverty, Citylimits.org, Mar. 2012,
http://www.citylimits.org/conversations/159/homeless-the-role-of-race.
24 U.S. Department of Housing & Urban Development, THE 2014 ANNUAL HOMELESS ASSESSMENT REPORT (AHAR) TO CONGRESS,
PART 1 POINT-IN-TIME ESTIMATES OF HOMELESSNESS 1 (Oct. 2014), https://www.hudexchange.info/resources/documents/2014-
AHAR-Part1.pdf.
25 U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, The 2010 ANNUAL HOMELESS ASSESSMENT REPORT (AHAR) TO CONGRESS
iii (2010), http://www.hudhre.info/documents/2010HomelessAssessmentReport.pdf.
26 See FN 7 at 15.
27 See FN 15 at 2-8.
28 See FN 6 at 1.
29 Id. at 2.
30 See FN 24 at 40.
31 See FN 15 at 4-6, 4-7.
32 See FN 21 at 2.
33 National Network to End Domestic Violence, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE COUNTS 2013: A 24-HOUR CENSUS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
SHELTERS AND SERVICES 1 (Sept. 2013),
http://nnedv.org/downloads/Census/DVCounts2013/Census13_FullReport_forweb_smallestFileSizeWhiteMargins.pdf.
34 Id.
35 National Low Income Housing Coalition, HOUSING SPOTLIGHT: THE AFFORDABLE RENTAL HOUSING GAP PERSIST 2 (Aug. 2014),
http://nlihc.org/sites/default/files/HS_4-1.pdf.
36 Id.
37 Id. at 3, 4.
38 Id. at 4.
39 National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty, STAYING HOME: THE RIGHTS OF RENTERS LIVING IN FORECLOSED PROPERTIES 2
(June 2010), http://nlchp.org/documents/StayingHome.
40 National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty, EVICTION (WITHOUT) NOTICE: RENTERS AND THE FORECLOSURE CRISIS 6 (Dec.
2012), http://www.nlchp.org/Eviction_Without_Notice.
41 Tischler, et al., Mothers experiencing homelessness: mental health, support and social care needs, 15 Health Soc. Care
Cmty. 3, 246-253 (May 2007); see also Ellen Shelton, et al., Homeless Study Fact Sheet: Long-Term Homelessness, Wilder
Res. Ctr. (Apr. 2013) (finding that at least 32% of homeless Minnesota women reported becoming homeless due to domestic
violence).
42 See FN 21 at 2.
43 Id.
updated January 2015
 

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Grey Friar
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Certainly the word "choice" can be misconstrued, at times in everyone's life there are choices that are between bad and worse (look no further than the 2016 election). [The choice of execution style, firing squad or hanging, is highly limited too, but in certain places at certain times, prisoners have been given those "choices". Die/commit-this-crime/work-for-us and save your loved one(s), or watch them die, are other draconian choices that have occurred at certain crime sites throughout history.] However, I take your point that many of those who have chosen to be homeless have had their range of choices forced upon them.

My point was that many people have "slipped through the cracks" of the safety-nets of help services they are supposed to be able to access. It is clear to me that the main reasons are access, ignorance, and/or refusal. Being without access is due to limits in reach/outreach, where not enough resources have been allocated toward the problem, or political grievances have limited access artificially (like what happened to Planned Parenthood, or the VA). Being ignorant of the full range of choices that are possible is likely due to one or more of several factors, which may have limited the success of that person's life all along. Refusal can be either refusal of services that are supposed to be available (incompetent or uncaring providers, triage of fund use), or it can be refusal to accept those services (pride, paranoia, criminal activity, addiction).

After the end of the VN war, a large number of disenfranchised vets became homeless, in the classical sense, but would not have been countable in statistics, or been easy to find in "tent cities", rather they would have joined a biker group, or made their way among The Rainbow Family, or became a solitary nomad, following warmth and societal largess. Today's vets seem to act differently when confronted with a society they no longer fit into as they did before, many of the "refusal" ones choose suicide, but some choose to live with other outcasts in tent cities, rather than biker groups.

According to the above survey, most homeless people are victims of racism and/or economic refugees of a capitalist system that favors banks and the wealthy, and shirks responsibility for the "necessary poor" (capitalism is itself a Ponzi Scheme). The next biggest group is minors who are either parentless (actually have no parents, or their parent(s) is/are evil/violent/drug addicted), or they have fled facing their own addictions/crimes. After that are domestic violence victims and vets.

My reason for bringing up "the homeless citizen problem" was to point out the symptom of a failing/failed society, where technology and energy use are seen as positive indicators of success, and those who are not active participants in the "worship" of those are left to fend for themselves, until they come begging at the right place and the right time. If we can't properly confront the massive and growing problem of homeless citizens in our society, what chance do we have of squaring ourselves with the plight and problem of non-citizens trying to survive? Our current right-wing, burgeoning fascist, political landscape does not want money to be spent on social services for the injured/ill/disenfranchised/poor, rather, direct that money toward war machines and corporate welfare to increase portfolio values. The current GOP has NO SOLUTION whatsoever for confronting the growing problems at our southern border... accusation of crime and delivery of punishment is all their philosophy can accomplish. Until there is leadership that recreates a system of charity and sensible social welfare that will be evidenced in the rescue of our citizen homeless, there can be no resolution to the border crisis.
 

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Access: It's almost impossible to get assistance of any kind if you don't have an address. That leaves many homeless with no access possibility at all. The best some can hope for is to find someone who has an address to allow them to use that address in order to apply for assistance. Even then, if home visits or other inspections are required, if they have to prove in some way that they LIVE there, which they don't, they still can't get help, and in some cases might be charged with attempted fraud.

When I see suggestions as one person mentioned, which was a thinly veiled suggestion to execute all homeless people, I have to speak up.

Likewise with the idea of "round them all up and sort them out", with the idea that 80% of them are homeless because they want to be and that a high percentage are criminals...I have to speak up.

The main difference between those who are homeless and those who are not, is simply having a place to live.

There are ongoing projects to provide housing for homeless people. Once they have a stable place to live, even if it's a very tiny place without much in the way of amenities, most are able to begin to turn their lives around.
 

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Grey Friar
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I get it, speaking up is a necessary part of being an American citizen... free speech rights have to be exercised if we want to keep them. I suppose setting the record straight and contributing opinion is a driver for many or all posters (self included), who take issue with the direction our country is headed in.

It looks like we need to put Jimmy Carter at the head of the line for human cloning, and spread the word of his kind of righteous contribution to solving problems, rather than continuing the pointless shaming, blaming, and prejudging of those who aren't favored by the current political push for industrialization and increased energy use, and include those who aren't favored by the current PC "values"... working together to arrive at solutions that help each other beats classifying everybody as "us or them".
 

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I watched John McCain: For Whom the Bell Tolls yesterday it's quite a good documentary.
I don't agree with everything, but I definitely have great respect for that Man. My wife hates politics and she even watched some of it because she felt like it was interesting. He held himself to a higher standard than anybody else ever could. He expected people to hold themselves to that same standard, and when they didn't he would call them out on it. Friends or family didn't matter he just wanted people to be the best that they could. No excuses and I like that type of attitude.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
 

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I watched John McCain: For Whom the Bell Tolls yesterday it's quite a good documentary.
I don't agree with everything, but I definitely have great respect for that Man. My wife hates politics and she even watched some of it because she felt like it was interesting. He held himself to a higher standard than anybody else ever could. He expected people to hold themselves to that same standard, and when they didn't he would call them out on it. Friends or family didn't matter he just wanted people to be the best that they could. No excuses and I like that type of attitude.

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Some ppl's standards are higher then others...Some ppl do more then others. Some are more responsible then others.....
 

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I've worked myself onto the razor's edge recently, but I'm not doing as badly as homeless. We do still have the house which needs repairs I can't afford, but perhaps next year, or later this year I'll do better. I do like helping other people who are less fortunate than I am, but there are times when it's very difficult for me to do so financially. I did not set up a good foundation in my youth, and it appears that it's more difficult to do so as I grow older.

Crap.. time to go to work again.
 

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Grey Friar
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At some point in the near future there will be a reckoning for those who take much, much more than they give... I'm talking about CEOs and the idol-worshipping board members who seduce avaricious and arrogant people to take the top-job with obscene amounts of money stolen from the managers and skilled employees who actually do the work of delivering the output of the company, and maintain its purpose in the world. Golden Parachutes worth millions given to failures, who have to be fired for incompetence/espionage/theft/insider-trading/collusion, and nothing but a pink-slip given to the hundreds or thousands cut from their jobs, due to the greed/folly/flaws of the fired CEO/CFO. These are things that will change after the intransigent GOP loses power in the Senate and POTUS, when laws that favor corporate bribery of government officials are removed, and regulatory guidelines for behavior are reintroduced, and white-color crime becomes as toxic as blue-color crime.

Sure, the disgust with corporate malfeasance won't entirely carryover to politics. Many, many people will keep voting against their own best interests, due to blind faith in their cult's ideology, and/or the words of their cult's propagandists, as they work to keep the member's thoughts focused on singular issues, so they can't see the big picture that includes their own demise. Except, that the level of dissatisfaction with pay-scales and work hours is already overriding much of the abstract satisfaction with low unemployment numbers. More and more people are becoming aware of their place within the burgeoning slave-class, and the narrower and narrower road to becoming a member of the ruling-class.

The glow from militaristic faux-patriotism DJT wrapped himself with when reading the 4th of July speech written for him won't last long enough to keep gullible swing-voters blinded to low moral character and the terrible job performance of our POTUS and his Senate cronies. It looks bad for enjoying a peaceful future, there will be violent outbursts from militaristic right-wing radicals, who persist in insisting on establishing/entrenching/formalizing racial overlord status upon their race, at the expense of everything else in society. But after the smoke clears they will have lost everything... too bad, my kids are white, and will have to live more sharply marginalized lives than boomers and gen-Xers, parrying suspicions and prejudgment in social settings, due to the inevitable swing in pop-culture norms that will follow the death-throes of the right-wing's ideology/actions.
 

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Whynot, I'm hopeful of change, too. All of what you said, and more. I don't know if it will happen, but I'm hoping. I wish we had a congress full of people like AOC, Patty, and Bernie.

Our current society spends huge amounts of money punishing people who have nothing, and almost nothing on actually helping them. Then wondering why they continue to have nothing. And punish them some more. Where's the sense in that?

In many major cities, they've made it illegal to sleep, eat, or even sit, outdoors in public spaces. They've gone so far as to remove all the benches at downtown bus stops, lest a homeless person sit down on one, or sleep on one at night.
Meanwhile, everyone suffers the lack. It keeps people from using public transportation, because they've made it so miserable. A person with sore feet or joint pain can't sit down while waiting for the bus, and if it rains, you get drenched because they​ removed all the bus stop shelters. All so they can punish homeless people for being homeless, removing the least little bit of comfort or shelter they might find.

There's no compassion. That has to change. Kicking a person when they're down never works to get them back on their feet. It just keeps them down.
 

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Grey Friar
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The Theory of Limited Good: https://thelogicalmiddle.blogspot.com/2009/07/theory-of-limited-good.html

It's long, but well explained by the author. The only thing wrong is that the conclusions are based on local environments that exist in a larger environment. In the instance of a global perspective, the environment is finite and limited, there is no larger environment to exploit, so the theory of Limited Good is exactly correct when applied to Earth as a whole. Enlightened Socialism is the most egalitarian system that can be applied to the problem of too much wealth in the hands of too few people, forcing too many people to have too little... capitalism is a parasitic system on the world, with mass death due to fighting over control of dwindled resources is the only outcome.
 

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The Theory of Limited Good: https://thelogicalmiddle.blogspot.com/2009/07/theory-of-limited-good.html

It's long, but well explained by the author. The only thing wrong is that the conclusions are based on local environments that exist in a larger environment. In the instance of a global perspective, the environment is finite and limited, there is no larger environment to exploit, so the theory of Limited Good is exactly correct when applied to Earth as a whole. Enlightened Socialism is the most egalitarian system that can be applied to the problem of too much wealth in the hands of too few people, forcing too many people to have too little... capitalism is a parasitic system on the world, with mass death due to fighting over control of dwindled resources is the only outcome.
Capitalism has brought billions out of poverty.
 

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Grey Friar
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The problem with capitalism comes when the greed of a few people is more important than the wellbeing of millions/billions. Laissez-faire capitalism is the worst, socialist capitalism (as most EU countries understand) is a vehicle for redistribution of "captive wealth" (the trillions that sit in banks accounts and properties of the worlds billionaires). If the money isn't available to circulation, and hidden in assets of uber-wealthy people, then it does nothing to enrich the lives of the billions who have been "lifted" from poverty, and especially, does nothing good for the billions who have been trampled into poverty by the excessive greed of those few. But then, the lack of serious, worldwide, government and religious involvement with birth control, is responsible for much of the imbalance (China tried under Mao, but the attempt was too draconian for the delicate sensibilities of most "free" people/countries). It's okay though, the rise and fall of every species is inevitable, and we are apparently no different in that regard.
 

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Buzz Aldrin being savaged on his Twitter feed for visiting the White House. 50th Anniversary of landing on the moon and liberals have to take a dump on it. Thanks!
 

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Grey Friar
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They're not dumping on the moon landing, they just hate DJT so much that anybody who doesn't dis him is their "enemy". Pop culture us-or-them mentality at work, it's been an entrenched part of American politics since Bush formalized the idea in a speech... but it started with Gingrich and his political pundit "entertainers".
 

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They're not dumping on the moon landing, they just hate DJT so much that anybody who doesn't dis him is their "enemy". Pop culture us-or-them mentality at work, it's been an entrenched part of American politics since Bush formalized the idea in a speech... but it started with Gingrich and his political pundit "entertainers".
You are incorrect. Several left sites are saying the moon landing is irrelevant as it was by white people. Yes. The Left Hates. Not the right.
 

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Grey Friar
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666 Posts
You are incorrect. Several left sites are saying the moon landing is irrelevant as it was by white people. Yes. The Left Hates. Not the right.
I'm not wrong. The "us or them" extremists of the left may be expressing ludicrous irrelevancies about their feelings toward the global space race that occurred back then (northern hemisphere imperialist governments fighting over technological bragging rights), but they fail to acknowledge the inadequacies of their own ideology when they call the grand gesture of arriving on another celestial body for the first time in human existence "irrelevant".

You are only half correct... the left hates the right, for sure, but the right hates the left as much or more... there are many fascism-supporting, white supremacist sites spewing their bile around the internet. Don't buy-in to the weak-minded us-or-them cultism of either side. There is no value to the future of life on this planet in having either extreme win. Right now, the criminals who use and abuse the ideology of the far-right are holding the reins of power in our country (and lording over the rest of the world), it is those people we MUST now resist... in the future it may be flip to the criminals of the far-left, but that is not the case right now.
 
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