Focus Fanatics Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
FF Affiliate
Joined
·
30,149 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
There seems to be some that think that adding Water Meth Inj = WMI is a power adder that by using it you retune for it and it adds power

I cannot say enough DO NOT change the tune when adding WMI , there are soooo many things that can go wrong when adding WMI , pump go out , lines come loose , turn on switch not work , empty the Res , and on and on , If the tune is changed for the WMI and the WMI goes out this will 100% for sure cause an engine failure

I use WMI on many of my customers turbo and some SC kits but i never and will never change the tune to make more power with them , I use it STRICTLY to make the higher HP safer why into WOT and making high HP/TQ numbers

Air is HP/TQ and water takes the place of the air but i feel the benefit from the way the heat is reduced in the charge is worth the trade off but most of the cars i put them on are over 300HP at the wheels , anything below 200 to 250 in my opinion would be a waste of time because your just not moving that much air/psi and shouldnt be getting that hot unless you have heat soaking issues from poor piping placement

Use WMI as a safety adder ONLY i cannot stress that enough

Tom
 

·
Something goes here
Joined
·
8,280 Posts
Good info Tom [thumb]
I think someone should make this a "Sticky"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,512 Posts
Tom, maybe you can explain a little more about WMI and how you install it, how it works, etc. Make this the WMI sticky thread. *nod*
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
1turbofocus said:
there are soooo many things that can go wrong when adding WMI , pump go out , lines come loose , turn on switch not work , empty the Res , and on and on , If the tune is changed for the WMI and the WMI goes out this will 100% for sure cause an engine failure
It can happen with an intercooled system air/water/air and all the people i know change the tune with that...so why it is different with the WMI?
 

·
FF Affiliate
Joined
·
30,149 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Not realy if an air to water cooler fails the IAT will go up and timing will be pulled in the tuning , Like the STD tuning 200AIT takes out 40 Deg of timing

If WM fails and the engine was tuned for the WM there isnt anything to tell the sensors that controle the timing that is isnt working (read above)

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
803 Posts
So Tom, just for clarification, if the WMI is placed before the IAT sensor, couldn't the timing be pulled once the IAT rises like in the case of the intercooler?
 

·
FF Affiliate
Joined
·
30,149 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I think your asking IF the WM fails and the IAT go up the timing will be pulled to save the engine?

Yes it could but there are other issues that will come into play from spraying the IAT with WM , the bigges one is atated above , I have seen on a 95 deg day, the WM spraying before the IAT sensor the IAT go to 65 deg yet the true IAT were well over 110 , with IAT in the 65 range a ton of timing can be added and isnt needed because of the TRUE IAT being 110 and going up

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,906 Posts
Any news on the TB spacer so we can put the Meth/water after the throttle body?

I thought about putting it into the aluminum manifold, but I figured it would just get blown out since the intake doesn't seem to bo think enough to drill and tap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,618 Posts
Any news on the TB spacer so we can put the Meth/water after the throttle body?

^^^ That would be a great way to go I would think..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,073 Posts
And the drumroll please...[?]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,906 Posts
If it works bring one to VIR and let me know how much[}:)]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,073 Posts
03OrangeSVT said:
If it works bring one to VIR and let me know how much[}:)]
And if it doesn't I'll be pushing my car around the track...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
1turbofocus said:
Im sorry this may screw it up from being a sticky but it needs to be said anyway

QUOTE from FocusSport
"My programming is dynamic, as it should be. If the intercooler where to fail, I command the ECU to pull X amount of spark based on IATs. Same goes for this type of water/meth kit. As long as your IAT sensor is good, you are set. "

Choose your tuners wisely , Your IAT sensor wont have a clue you are running Water Meth or they shouldnt anyway , If your IAT comes in contact with the WM it will get readings in the low 60`s this will trigger WAY more timing that isnt needed because the lower the intake air temp the more timing the engine can stand as long as THE TRUE AIR coming in is cool not the IAT being cooled by water meth, this will not reflect the TRUE Temp of the incoming air and with the FS kit could be WELL OVER 150-180Deg with WM but the AIT sensor wouldnt know this because it is getting wet and cooled off by the passing air , water , meth, Then tuners see slight gains in HP and tune for that changing what was a safe tune for a WM tune if and when the WM fails there IS NOTHING not even dynamic special super secret tuning that will save the engine , Meth will also eat up a IAT in short time


Now lets just say that the WM is placed past the intake ait temp sensor , the IAT will only see the hot air and not know that you have water meth, Now here is where tuners that think they know it all screw up , they add timing to the engine knowing (in there mind) that the IAT sensor is reflecting what the intake air temp is but not reflecting the slightly cooler charge that is being cooled by the WM so when and if the WM fails there IS NOTHING not even dynamic special super secret tuning that will save the engine

Water meth IS NOT A POWER ADDER , Use if for a safety factor or leave it alone

Tom
You fail to understand how I approach tuning. Don't you understand how the multipliers and adders for ACT work in conjunction with the Max Allowed Spark table? The door swings both ways! You can use said tables in more than one way, but instead of acknowledging this, you choose not to and instead make incorrect assumptions. Getting this right is not that hard, you just have to use your head and fairly simple math.
 

·
FF Affiliate
Joined
·
30,149 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
So your "dynamic" tuning is done with the same thing everyone else uses and you can screw with the Muiltipliers and adders all you want to and that was exactly my point and what i figured you were doing

The door swings both ways ????? you only have ONE tempature coming in the piping and that IAT is what it is , you can manipulate what the ECU sees but you cannot change what its effects will be on the engine IF the WM fails

I can read all the things you say and totally understand your approach to tuning , Dont forget randy i was doing REAL tuning back when you were telling people how wonderfull off the shelf tuning was

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
You ought to look up the definition for dynamic Tom. I never said my methods were unknown to anyone else.

You make far too many assumptions and you even go as far as starting threads warning people to beware of the tuner they choose, quoting me, trying to make us sound bad. Kind of silly, Tom. And it makes you look desperate at times.

You ought to familiarize yourself with the Max spark table, it's quite useful.

I'm sorry, but you aren't the only one that knows how to tune. I know you don't like the idea that we're in the game, but get used to it, we're here to stay. [:)]
 

·
FF Affiliate
Joined
·
30,149 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I dont need to make any assumptions when it comes to your tuning

I ought to familiarize my self with the Max SPK Tables , Like i dont already know what the are , Like i said before i was doing REAL tuning when you were realing in the suckers with that crappey off the shelf tuning YOU put so much stock into at the time

No im not the only one that knows how to tune there are many that are good at it , Im sure one day you might make that list

Not sure what game your talking about , Im sure your playing one just not the HP/TQ game , Im not here to play games Focus-Power is here to help and support customers and to be top of the hill when it comes to making HP/TQ and we will stay there as we have been sence 2000

You have fun playing your game !

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
You crack me up. Tom, you were the one who started this thread. Sorry, I didn't mean to get you all wound up. Maybe the next time you think about speculating on what other's are doing, you'll think twice and concentrate on your own work.

And yes, yes, I get it - you have been tuning for a long time and you know everything.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top