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Neither do I. Haven't heard/read anybody else doing that either... do you have a particular post in mind where any of those things has happened?



Me too. I only attack people who unfairly attack me, or truth, or other people, or display no moral values.

Besides, Trump IS "a stupid incompetent idiot". That's the part that's arguable. The part that is NOT arguable is that anybody who supports a stupid incompetent idiot, must be either gullible, or ignorant, or stupid, or they want to see everything destroyed... or some combination of those things.
Being gullible is not a bad thing, but it's a thing that can get you abused by con-men... that is, if no one tries to save you from the con-men.
Being ignorant is not bad in and of itself (we're ALL ignorant about some things, including VERY important things) it's a correctable thing... all ignorant people need is information to help them make better decisions.
It's only the last two things, being stupid, or wanting ruin to befall others, are things worthy of chasing away from the rest of us.
Fair enough.

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Maybe I have mentioned this before but my little brother my only sibling has a degree in ministry he does missionary work every now and then. His wife is also very religious. My wife feels the same way I do about a higher power, but I have a fairly decent relationship with my brother so does my wife. We have a different opinion about religion/ a higher power, but we allow him to say how he feels and we just listen.

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Grey Friar
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...I believe this is massively overblown it is not going to kill anywhere near that many people. ...
If this virus doesn't kill at least a million people, it will ONLY be because of your so-called "overblown" response to it. If nothing had been shut down, this would have been far worse than the 1918 flu. That's what the best and brightest scientists and medical professionals say... you know, the people who really know things, not just sitting around complaining and idly speculating on the death of others.

The death rate is going to continue to drop...
That wouldn't happen, except for the massive efforts being taken right now. This virus has a two week window where an infected person can spread it and not know they are going to be sick, yet. The "death rate" will go down when we find and persistently apply a cure... like ozone, or zinc/quinine, or some other experimental treatment. The only other thing that will make the death rate go down, is if the INFECTION RATE goes down.
 

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I believe getting on a cruise ship is a bad idea, stopping airline travel not a bad idea. Shutting down the entire school system, restaurants, the gym and so on to the point of job loss and business failure is not the answer. The county I live in doesn't have a single case not one. It has been here for weeks in my state maybe longer.

We will just have to agree to disagree it is overblown in my mind. We will discuss who was actually right at the end of the year.

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So what happens in a crowed auditorium or sports arena where there is just one infected person who doesn't know they are infected? What happens if that person uses the ketchup bottle or mustard bottle, or presses the condiment lever on the tub to get one of those things, and then a previously uninfected person uses it and eats with their hands? It's clear that all the uninfected people doing that will contract this highly contagious disease. That's how you catch a cold of flu... or any virus that can be spread by simple contact, like the coronavirus. What happens if many unknowing infected people do the same?

It's really simple for the people who understand epidemics and pandemics, and, especially, this kind of virus. The choice is between temporary economic downturn/recession, and log-term global economic failure/collapse. We're in trouble either way you cut it. Massive death until a cure is found, or bankruptcies and a few deaths, until a cure is found. In a stable economy (which is not sustainable anyway, long-term), people come back from economic down-turns, but people don't come back from death... unless you believe in re-incarnation. It's important to listen to experts, not the ravings of a POS POTUS who only cares about his "numbers", and how those "numbers" effect his chances to be reelected... which I hope are zero... and the moral conservatives are now speaking out that they also hope for his downfall (see the articles in the "impeachment" thread).
 

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We have never done this before though with anything. We didn't do this with the swine flu, hell we haven't done it with anything.

I look at the world map everyday on the deaths and how many people have it and so on. Keep the old and sick people home don't visit the nursing home don't visit the hospital. Allow healthy people like myself to continue on to keep this country going. Well I am still going I have to work. Public services in local government doesn't shut down.

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The difference is this virus is more contagious than the flu, because it lives on surfaces longer and the person who has it doesn't know they have it for weeks, AND it makes an otherwise healthy person sick for 4 to 6 weeks, not just 1 to 2 weeks. The experts know this is a different animal.

Stay careful, the country needs to maintain government services (in spite of what neo-cons believe). They say to avoid toughing your face, unless you have sanitized your hands after contact with people.
 

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Luckily I basically work by myself. I'm also a little bit of a clean freak. I bring my food with me but I have the bladder capacity of old woman. Luckily sheetz the convenience store chain is open so a place to use the bathroom and wash hands.

I'll just continue to hope for the best and do what I can to plan for the worst.

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Where are you getting 4 to 6 weeks for healthy people?

My wife's job allows her to have information to stuff that is a lot better than what we have access to. Advantage of working for a giant corporation. She gets lots of information from the states as well from their nursing boards, because she has a nursing license for every state in the country not your average doctor's office nurse. The recovery seems to be around two weeks for the majority, and that's also what I'm finding while doing my own independent research. I believe I will trust her and my own independent research over y'all.


"The vast majority of people recover from the new virus. According to the World Health Organization, people with mild illness recover in about two weeks, while those with more severe illness may take three to six weeks to recover."


The vast majority of the cases are mild.

“Some of these patients, they just go unrecognized,” he said. “It could be just as small as a sore throat. Then one day, two days, it’s gone.”




My state has not had to put one person in the hospital. The more research I do the more this seems like overblown cow poo.




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Zaca, we will just have to agree to disagree. I wish you no ill will and I AM an -sshole, I know my position in life. I don't expect nearly everybody to agree and I indeed expect it. There is nothing wrong with being 'stupid' until one decides that is where they choose to stay. Trying to prod others to take more import of their own existence....like shooting a gun with the barrel full of dirt.

I lived William Buckley for a while, the quote given there was simply devised to get a gotcha, he said so later. The other quote can be easily applied to those who get angry, I wouldn't use that if I were you, but do as you will.

I do feel for you. The only time I will ever admit it. You as are all of us are your own man and have to make your own ways through things and whatever happens does based on our choices.

I will apologize to you for the way I approached things, I have never been good at it. Too abrupt, too little tact. Why they made me a boss everywhere I went. I did the job and got the rewards but that did not make me any happier in much of it. I did not like being over others simply due to stuff like your response back, I don't like the thought of upsetting others but how do you help people if you don't risk it? All you can do is steel yourself and plow into it like going into that fire you spoke of. The name calling is nothing but hurting others is not.

I am used to the -sshole thing, I have been through that all my life, the labels quit bothering me long ago. The kids who used to beat me up over not letting them copy my schoolwork got me used to names long ago. I wish I was a 'little man' now but I tend to bust that desire anytime I get in public and bullsh-t is being handed out. I used to stay bottled up until at some point my Dad's DNA kicked in and then it's stay clear of him after that. It is what it is, I cannot nor do I want to change who I am.

Am I smart? You bet, too smart to handle it I'd say in a heartbeat. Somebody else asked you if anybody ever said things bragging. I did and A's mostly A+ and never took home homework, reading long books (100 a summer in the library reading contests, which I always won) at 5-9 years old and college graduate skills in 7th grade. It was and still IS a CURSE. The obsessive/compulsive perfectionism overlaid over it makes it 100X worse. I should have gone into aerospace like Dad. I pissed off plenty of official factory techs on the huge printing presses too when doing things they did not approve of. You see how I work on the cars with virtually no training on them at all. It all works. WTF am I the bad guy when so many of you cannot do what I see as the most simple of things????? Uh, yeah, and the way this planet works. Looking for a new one as we speak.

We all have our cross to bear. It's not bragging if you hate it, just another point to get across. Makes you madder if it's true. I have thought a thousand times of simply dropping off the earth, the woman I have has stopped me from doing some pretty stupid things.

If we all are here and there is no God, then why aren't we all just screwing our fellow beings in every way we could, even more if we are no better than the animals? If we truly believe that then we are screwing ourselves by leaning toward moderation, or anything approaching rules. Morality has no value if there is no reason for it to exist. And if we all die and then there is nothing, then just WHAT WAS THE FUCKING POINT?????

Oh, yeah, I am the -sshole.
 

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Zaca, we will just have to agree to disagree. I wish you no ill will and I AM an -sshole, I know my position in life. I don't expect nearly everybody to agree and I indeed expect it. There is nothing wrong with being 'stupid' until one decides that is where they choose to stay. Trying to prod others to take more import of their own existence....like shooting a gun with the barrel full of dirt.

I lived William Buckley for a while, the quote given there was simply devised to get a gotcha, he said so later. The other quote can be easily applied to those who get angry, I wouldn't use that if I were you, but do as you will.

I do feel for you. The only time I will ever admit it. You as are all of us are your own man and have to make your own ways through things and whatever happens does based on our choices.

I will apologize to you for the way I approached things, I have never been good at it. Too abrupt, too little tact. Why they made me a boss everywhere I went. I did the job and got the rewards but that did not make me any happier in much of it. I did not like being over others simply due to stuff like your response back, I don't like the thought of upsetting others but how do you help people if you don't risk it? All you can do is steel yourself and plow into it like going into that fire you spoke of. The name calling is nothing but hurting others is not.

I am used to the -sshole thing, I have been through that all my life, the labels quit bothering me long ago. The kids who used to beat me up over not letting them copy my schoolwork got me used to names long ago. I wish I was a 'little man' now but I tend to bust that desire anytime I get in public and bullsh-t is being handed out. I used to stay bottled up until at some point my Dad's DNA kicked in and then it's stay clear of him after that. It is what it is, I cannot nor do I want to change who I am.

Am I smart? You bet, too smart to handle it I'd say in a heartbeat. Somebody else asked you if anybody ever said things bragging. I did and A's mostly A+ and never took home homework, reading long books (100 a summer in the library reading contests, which I always won) at 5-9 years old and college graduate skills in 7th grade. It was and still IS a CURSE. The obsessive/compulsive perfectionism overlaid over it makes it 100X worse. I should have gone into aerospace like Dad. I pissed off plenty of official factory techs on the huge printing presses too when doing things they did not approve of. You see how I work on the cars with virtually no training on them at all. It all works. WTF am I the bad guy when so many of you cannot do what I see as the most simple of things????? Uh, yeah, and the way this planet works. Looking for a new one as we speak.

We all have our cross to bear. It's not bragging if you hate it, just another point to get across. Makes you madder if it's true. I have thought a thousand times of simply dropping off the earth, the woman I have has stopped me from doing some pretty stupid things.

If we all are here and there is no God, then why aren't we all just screwing our fellow beings in every way we could, even more if we are no better than the animals? If we truly believe that then we are screwing ourselves by leaning toward moderation, or anything approaching rules. Morality has no value if there is no reason for it to exist. And if we all die and then there is nothing, then just WHAT WAS THE FUCKING POINT?????

Oh, yeah, I am the -sshole.
That is a heartfelt response and I can't knock a man for being honest. I can definitely understand how you feel about certain things. Being intelligent can absolutely be a curse I agree. Pursuing blue collar work was probably a mistake on my part but it also made me the man that my wife loves, so maybe it was worth it after all. She is everything to me. I probably should have pursued something in math engineering, maybe finances very passionate about money. I have the same curse my parents have both very intelligent but they never knew how to use it. My dad was a teacher but hated the industry he has done blue collar mostly route style jobs like vending machines now work for TruGreen. My mom was a medical transcriptionist when the industry was hot every company wanted her. She could max out every test they had. Now she's a certified medical assistant the nurse practitioner she works under, and also the doctor she works under tell her she's unbelievably intelligent and people just don't realize how gifted she is. She gets frustrated why doesn't she have a great job position if she's so gifted probably because they're afraid of her ability.
I'm also a idealist which is also a curse. I operate on the idea of how things should be not the reality that we live in. I will admit I can be a little bit of an *******. Maybe to brutally honest and open about how I feel.

I'm not a religious man I don't know where I get my morals and ethics from. I just believe in doing no harm to other living things. My wife has a heart of gold no religious belief either. Maybe something is bigger at play who knows.

I don't necessarily agree with how you speak to people sometimes or your religious ideas, but we have some stuff in common. I have also thought about dropping off the Earth more than once you are not alone there. But I know that would do serious damage to at least 4 people in my life, so I just suck it up and keep on going for them. Yeah I understand your curse. Have a good night tomorrow is another day.

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I have a son, and he follows me in too many ways even though I have discouraged that, I am afraid he might do something if I do, we even went so far as to have me promise not to ever do something if he would promise not to as well. He is agnostic as well and that can be trouble for both of us.

Life with me is not easy, the wife will tell you, as will he. Yet they stay, things like that are what make me think there is something more than 'just me'. I would be a fool to wreck that.

Learning is a curse, it puts you away from the rest and then you cannot relate. Being lesser educated can be good, it blinds you to all the choices that then cannot smother you.
 

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I disagree that learning is a curse (although I understand the burden of it, that is, as long as you are also a person who is lead by moral responsibility). It can be a curse, because learning all too often can lead a person away from the simple direct connection to their own means of survival, if they follow high-tech "solutions" to things, and reject the cooperative ventures that lower-tech solutions provide. There is a limiting factor to either one of those paths, but high-tech puts more and more distance between us and a direct connection to long-term survival of the community-of-man (greater minds than mine have shown the truth of that... from Huxley to Tzu, from Hume to Jesus, too many more to mention).

The difficulty with learning is often that it can tend a person toward the path of following technology to the exclusion of nature... IMO, because tech is so interesting and nature is so commonly familiar. Unfortunately, our current society/Pop Culture values money above all else, and high-tech makes great amounts of wealth for a small number of people... those people then become our leaders, and we all get carried along, further and further out on a technological limb and away from environmentally friendly, long-term survival strategies for the greatest number of people. Learning is a double edged sword.

Being smart? "Noblesse oblige". Both a blessing and a curse. A blessing, because of the richness of experience it affords you, and the social and/or financial advantage that can be made from it. A curse, because of the sense of duty to others you feel (if you are not a sociopath) and frustration when those on the other side of the bell curve refuse to listen to truths, and you watch them being lead by the smart sociopaths who take advantage of them. Pleasure and pain... intelligence is also a double edged sword.

Being imperfect, both individually and as a species, is the thing that makes both of those cut. For those who are both smart and learned, there is only one choice that has value. The type-As work with other highly ambitious people, and the type-Bs (myself) work with other lesser ambitious people. It's important to keep speaking out, even if we are shouting in a room of mostly deaf people. It's important to keep shinning a light on the truth, even if most of the viewers have been psychologically blinded by lies... and even if those lies are what their fears make them want to believe. I enjoy the possibility of helping as many people as possible to avoid being crushed under a reality they otherwise would never see or hear coming.
 

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Grey Friar
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Where's Pasta?
Hopefully, still working.

More than pasta, I miss whynotthink's posts. Always rational, clear, well researched, and/or entertaining. I suppose he's hard at work these days, too busy to post. I hope the electrician's union has protocols for coronavirus that will keep both of them well.
 

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Grey Friar
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Coronavirus. In order to protect yourself, your loved ones, and your community, only listen to the sick con-man POTUS' when he is reading from a prepared statement that he was forced to read.

The infection will probably hit the USA worse than all but the most seriously overcrowded countries. Because: freedom, market-based society, self-entitlement, denial, ignorant POTUS' earlier stupid tweets that his cultists will cling to, gutted and underfunded CDC, lack of testing and reporting, and neo-con social Darwinism that many mysteriously think doesn't apply to them (see self-entitlement, denial, and DJT/GOP cultism).

It's smart to stay home... unless you can't and you take EVERY precaution. God bless first responders and hospital workers.
 

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Coronavirus. In order to protect yourself, your loved ones, and your community, only listen to the sick con-man POTUS' when he is reading from a prepared statement that he was forced to read.

The infection will probably hit the USA worse than all but the most seriously overcrowded countries. Because: freedom, market-based society, self-entitlement, denial, ignorant POTUS' earlier stupid tweets that his cultists will cling to, gutted and underfunded CDC, lack of testing and reporting, and neo-con social Darwinism that many mysteriously think doesn't apply to them (see self-entitlement, denial, and DJT/GOP cultism).

It's smart to stay home... unless you can't and you take EVERY precaution. God bless first responders and hospital workers.
What about the grocery store workers? They are coming into contact with more people than anyone without protection. Zero protection they deserve respect for what they are doing.
My wife and mom work in healthcare we had a good conversation this weekend they are not the most exposed. They have protection and safety policies in place to help protect them. It's the person at the grocery store the person at the gas station they are forgotten they don't get credit for the risk.

What about the sanitation workers picking up garbage more people are home so more garbage. They breath in everything.



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True, they are at risk for catching the disease. The check-out people wear gloves at the stores around here, but no masks and they are very close to the people they check out. Around here the garbage trucks are automated, and robot arms pick-up and dump the garbage into the top of the truck. The last time the garbage guys came by they were wearing masks, and they always have worn gloves (to pick up the stuff that might not make it into the truck). I'm glad the health care workers are being protected, can you imagine what would happen if a large percentage of nurses/doctors got sick and could NOT come in to work???

My son works as receiving manager at a Menards hardware. His girlfriend also works at that store part-time (she's also a grade school teacher). They don't have any policies in place, except "social distancing". They don't provide masks or gloves. I worry about her coming into contact with an infected person she helps in the store, then spreading it to my son. My mom is very old and lives in an assisted-living facility. My wife and I are the ones who bring her what she needs, we are more worried about being a "vector" than we are about being a "victim". If we spread it to her, she's dead. That means we either can't see my son and his girlfriend, or we have to take draconian precautions when he comes over to help with something or to work on his car. It is a bad time to work in retail, or public service. I hope your wife and mom will stay healthy.
 

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They said last night national news that somebody went into the emptied cruise ship that had none aboard since whenever now and still found active covid virus on it.
 

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I sure hope that's not true or the country is in worse trouble than the experts first thought.

It would be really beneficial if our POTUS wasn't one of the main disinformation people. Here's a short article, containing a video that outlines how dangerously ignorant (or sociopathic) DJT has been through all this. (BTW, the Bulwark claims to be politically neutral, but has a founder [Charlie Sykes] and an Editor-at-Large [William Kristol] who are lifetime GOP apologists, working on behalf of GHW Bush, Dubya, Jeb, and in support of GOP ideology... this article is NOT from a "liberal" publication.)

I bet soon some of the GOP senators that voted to back DJT and party, instead of country, will wish they could change their vote.
 
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