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Discussion Starter #1
As the title states...

I'm building an 89k mile 04 SVTF I've had since 2014 as a decent weather driver/weekend mountain/track day car. It will mainly be ran at Atlanta Motorsports Park (Dads a founding member) and Road Atlanta occasionally. Right now it's mostly stock save for full bolt ons. Car is down for a massive rebuild and I'm basically building the car in one go. Can provide mod list if it helps.

I'm basically trying to get a baseline on how the car handles before increasing power levels. I will be turbocharging the car at some point, probably on stock internals at first and possibly build a forged shortblock separately depending on end power goals. I want to start working with tuning the car while NA to get an idea of how it responds to changes before diving into FI tuning. This decision should be obvious.

I've been looking at the SCT Pro Racer software but no one at SCT can seem to tell me exactly what I can and cannot do with the SVTF pcm and their software. I even talked to everyone at SEMA and they were stumped as well. Maybe I just didn't find the right person? With no demo download and their feature page being vague with no real list by vehicle i don't want to drop that much on software on a guess (maybe Tom can chime in). I come from the HP Tuners, AEM, Hondata/Uberdata/Moates, Megasquirt world to give you an idea of what I'm used to as far tuning interface and flexibility.

I know i can't do things like convert to speed density, flex fuel support, anti lag, etc but what exactly can I do? Does the SCT software give me access to every table in the PCM?

With the stock FPDM and moving to a larger fuel pump can I modify the values of the FPDM for the larger pump? I'm simply used to hardwiring the pump and letting the regulator do the rest. Is it possible to remove the FPDM all together and disable it in the PCM?

Depending on how the stock tank performs around the track I may or may not run a surge tank with another pump in it to feed the engine and retain the stock in tank pump to feed the surge but then comes the question of how to manage the FPDM since the pump will be drawing minimal current as it wont really be generating pressure since the surge tank has a return to the stock tank. Then comes the rail pressure sender. Can I modify what the PCM sees or just delete it entirely? If I don't convert to a return fuel system I can stay returnless and have the surge tank deliver a steady pressure across the entire rpm range but will the FPDM, rail pressure sender, and PCM see a big disagreement?

I will run the car on E85 at some point, I know i can't use the factory PCM in a flex fuel setup so I'll just have to reflash when I swap to and from.

Going back to my Hondas and tuning with them I know i can feed the 0-5v wideband reference directly to the PCM and in real time it will control timing and fueling based on load and afr commanded. Is there anyway for the stock SVTF to support something like this? I'm assuming there are multiple afr and ignition tables

The biggest question: Emissions equipment

I currently live in a county that requires emissions so obviously I need the stock PCM. I already got it to pass on a stock tune with no cat so I can tell the stock PCM is not overly sensitive in some areas but for example if I could just disable the rear o2 in the tune that would be easier (hptuners for example). Also I'll be running a catchcan setup that vents to atmosphere so if there's a way to remove the evap components and the canister, etc and disable them in the ecu that would be ideal. I know SCT said they follow all federal EPA guidelines so that would leave me to believe some of the above are a no

I do have an MS3 Pro standalone just laying around and a 104 pi breakout box that will let me keep the stock harness and pcm connector and just plug in the MS3 without having to remove to stock engine harness. That would give me 100% control over everything but obviously I'm not gonna pass obd2 emissions with that lol. I am trying to register the car in a nearby county that doesn't require emissioms but it does take a fair amount of work. Alternatively when its emissions time I could remove the standalone, put the stock pcm in and revert enough of the car back to stocl to get it to pass. Its not ideal but this isn't a daily so I could do it, begrudgingly, if I had to. I also have a few extra stock SVTF PCMs laying around I could experiment with if needed if say one blows up again (don't ask lol)

So in apology for the long post and question overload in a TL;DR way. What exactly are my limitations with the stock PCM and Pro Racer software?

TIA
 

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Your going to have to find a X3 flasher to tune with , the PCM will handle 87 up to c16 to e100 even

If your going boost for 565.00 i can do all your Tuning for you NA or Turbo and no one know the SVT PCM better then i do NA or Turbo

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah I was looking at the x3. I know the x4 has severe issues that SCT has decided not to fix in regards to the SVTF. My main issue is emissions and the FPDM with a possible dual pump system, one of which would not be controlled by the PCM. Also will eventually do a VCT delete and cams, etc.

My only issue with flash tuning is as far as i understand I cannot datalog in real time. I have to view them in the software once I pull them off the x3 correct? I guess I'm spoiled by real time datalogging

Do you just do it remote where I do pulls and email the logs then you send a modified tune and rinse and repeat basically? I have access to numerous dynos, I just like to tackle the tuning myself lol. Tuned our z06 time attack car, my Canyon, multiple turbo hondas, 240s, etc. Hence me grabbing an X3 and the Pro Racer and getting down to business.

Or do I just give in and run my standalone
 

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The only limitation of the ecu is the tuners abilities.

Adding additional features would require custom code to be written.

You have the ability to adjust anything the ecu has control over. No you will not have access to every parameter, table nor function but that's the case with any stock ecu tuning software.

Disabling the rear o2's is illegal and will fail emissions.

Removing any emissions component will make the vehicle illegal to operate on public roads and will cause you to fail emissions.

SCT nor any other commercial tuning options will not be able to give you that ability. Its only the DIY and bin hackers that have a vested interest in your specific ecu strategy that will be able to do everything you want. AFAIK there are none for the non eec-v focus.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Don't tell HP Tuners that, its just a check box lol.

Like I said I've already fooled the stock PCM into thinking the cat is actually there. Passed OBD2 readiness no problem.

Depending on what I ultimately do i might just get a tune done for the stock pcm solely for emissions and run my standalone the rest of the time. I just really wanted to try and see what the stock PCM could do. I guess I'm just spoiled by the access you have when tuning stock pcm based hondas and GMs now
 

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Don't get me wrong, the ford ecu can be reprogrammed to operate the thermostat on your a/c in your house. Its just the abilities the commercial tuning software gives you is very limited.

If you passed emissions then you don't even need to tune the ecu since your not going to be running it regardless.

I still don't understand though. The stock ecu can run the engine just as well if not better than any aftermarket ecu you just won't get the additional features the aftermarket ecus give you. In either case you wouldn't be passing emissions so I think it would be a moot point swapping to an aftermarket ecu as that defeats the whole purpose.

Best bet is to leave all the emission stuff intact and tune it for the new engine mods and turbo no problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I still have to have emissions in GA to get a tag. If I'm in an emissions County, which I am. We are thinking about moving but that's a ways off. The car would be driven so little that if I did go standalone that converting back to stock pcm would mean just plugging it back in and the respective emissions components it wants to see. Obviously staying with the stock PCM is easier but function limited if compared to a modern standalone but that comparison isn't exactly a fair one.

I totally understand the ecu is capable of almost anything. Its just the software that limits you. I still remember having to write base code for the old school megasquirts. For example with HP Tuners I can view the entire PCM on our C6, every table GM has i can adjust (not that I need to and some you shouldn't touch unless you want a fancy piece of garage art)

I even have a Diablsport handheld for my canyon with 4 "can" tunes in it. However I can still modify these from tire size to idle speed, even tweak timing and fueling values with the handheld itself and then upload them to the PCM, all withoit a laptop and someone else rewriting the tune. However the process of reflashing is painfully repetitive and datalogging is easier with torque than with the handheld. Granted datalogging the SVTF with a handheld would probably yield more valid PID datastreams than torque because it doesn't pull down jack.

I have 0 experience with SCT so I don't know how their hand-held performs when compared to the diablosport for example and I dont know how their software compares to HP Tuners (things im used to) and for someone who's used to real-time datalogging and tuning i guess i just feel like the handheld itself is an extra barrier. With HP Tuners I'll datalog a session around AMP and if needed tweak the tune real quick and then go back out and see how the changes perform. All from the same little laptop with one USB cable. I mean hell we can tweak the tune in our McLaren with a damn cellphone, which did actually blow my mind just FYI. That a tune was Bluetooth enabled lol.

So I guess if someone could just give me a baseline example of what ProRacer is capable of. I can't even find screenshot examples of Ford tables to see what the user interface looks like and what sort of tables it gives you access to. Even HP Tuners will let you demo the software, after all its useless without a registered dongle just like SCT.

hopefully that made sense, I'm currently getting over an epic sinus infection so im a bit... cloudy.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Also I'd like to learn the ins and outs of the stock PCM and see how I can learn and adapt to it and challenge myself to tune the car. SCT would be a new experience compared to what im used to so theres obviously some apprehension and caution there. Being the car is currently NA and mostly stock aside from "full bolt ons" now would be that time since there's a tiny bit more forgiveness. One does not jump into tuning with a new software and platform AFTER turbocharging it. I know HP Tuners backwards, its all we've ever used to tune the Z06 but theres over a decade of trial and error there especially since it was an R&D platform for several companies prototypes. I remember being in high school learning how to tune my 99 civic Si with a chipped P28 and Uberdata and God that was forever ago. Also in the LS world there are plenty of spares floating around should you get a little too overzealous with tuning. The same cannot be said regarding the SVTF platform.

I know i can run the car on the MS3 Pro and Tuner Studio with little issue aside from getting the VCT right, the stock PCM would actually challenge me and thats something I enjoy when building cars as nothing is really challenging lately. Eventually yes the car will transition over solely to the standalone but that is down the road once I've had decent seat time, the car is shaken down, and emissions is no longer a concern.
 

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The only limitation of the ecu is the tuners abilities.

Adding additional features would require custom code to be written.

You have the ability to adjust anything the ecu has control over. No you will not have access to every parameter, table nor function but that's the case with any stock ecu tuning software.

Disabling the rear o2's is illegal and will fail emissions.

Removing any emissions component will make the vehicle illegal to operate on public roads and will cause you to fail emissions.

SCT nor any other commercial tuning options will not be able to give you that ability. Its only the DIY and bin hackers that have a vested interest in your specific ecu strategy that will be able to do everything you want. AFAIK there are none for the non eec-v focus.
I have 100% control to all SVT PCM/Blackoak parameters/tables/scalars through SCT as well as the ability to turn off his rear o2 sensor if I wanted to , if you want to get to the bare bones ANY change to the PCM is illegal

Tom
 

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On a laptop you can datalog in real time with the SCT , I have Tuned dozens and dozens of Turbocharged Focus that pass local emissions
The SVT/ST170 is the only place the Black Oak PCM was used , it isnt a easy car to Tune and get right and no one knows the ins and outs of the SVT PCM with boost like I do

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I figured the SCT software pulled the entire PCM image similar to HP tuners. So basically X3, Pro Racer and im good. I guess you can interface the car to the x3 to the laptop to realtime log unless you're just using an obd2 to usb cable to a laptop.

I'll probably wind up enlisting your assistance once I get it turbocharged as all I ever hear is "let tom tune it" in the FI community. Mainly because I won't be running a conventional turbo setup, more of a WRC Group N setup in regards to the turbo. Evo 16G with a 34mm restrictor. Limits power to around 350bhp but produces a massively flat torque curve. I may run my 2871r or my 20g if I decide not to build the manofold for the evo turbo but since 350-400 is the maximum you can really use and still have fun (traction) I feel like the 16G is the best fit. I have roughly 20 turbos so theres options lol.

Don't want to push it on stock internals. Per the internet I've read 350 is about the limit for stock internals. I know people have gone higher but I would question reliability especially given my intended purpose for the vehicle. But for now its stay NA, tune it and sort of out the handling aspects, and then revaluate a power increase from there.

On the bright side my exhaust piping kit from trubendz showed up. Now to wait on the other parts. My coilovers will take 6 weeks to build so that's gonna be torture
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Will the stock FPDM handle a Walbro 450? Thats what I would run either in tank or use the stock pump to feed a surge tank

I've been reading up on the eec-v and black oak architecture. Actually fairly impressive considering the Era it was engineered. Now I'm digging into all the tech manuals surrounding the pcm itself.
 

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SCT has significantly more parameters than hptuners for fords. In fact the saying amongst pro ford tuners is that real tuners don't use HP lol.

SCT does not allow you to read out the tune, the software has a database of stock tunes already stored in it. You always start from a stock tune with sct.

Tom, no commercial tuning software gives you 100% access to every parameter in the ecu. On the Focus ecu's SCT only gives you access to less than 25% of all the parameters. Its more than enough to tune it properly but there is a SIGNIFICANT amount of parameters that they don't add because they are not usually needed and the time it would take to add all of those parameters would be counter intuitive to a commercialized product. HPTuners gives you significantly less.

I have 100% control to all SVT PCM/Blackoak parameters/tables/scalars through SCT as well as the ability to turn off his rear o2 sensor if I wanted to , if you want to get to the bare bones ANY change to the PCM is illegal

Tom
For a quick example, on the 04 svt strategy UJAIA, SCT gives you access to roughly 3200 scalars, 800 functions and 225 tables. Looking at the binary code of that strategy it has approx. 27,937 scalars, 1866 functions and 863 tables.
 

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I made the statement and I stand by it , I have the Calibrators SCT and I cant say what else , I can access all addresses in the Focus PCM and I have books and books of addresses for the PCM/TCM 2000 to 2018 Focus

Tom
 

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Can you disable PATS in the kraf5 strategy for the 2000 zetec 2L's ?
 

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The only limitation of the ecu is the tuners abilities.

Adding additional features would require custom code to be written.

You have the ability to adjust anything the ecu has control over. No you will not have access to every parameter, table nor function but that's the case with any stock ecu tuning software.

Disabling the rear o2's is illegal and will fail emissions.

Removing any emissions component will make the vehicle illegal to operate on public roads and will cause you to fail emissions.

SCT nor any other commercial tuning options will not be able to give you that ability. Its only the DIY and bin hackers that have a vested interest in your specific ecu strategy that will be able to do everything you want. AFAIK there are none for the non eec-v focus.
I dont agree with that either , I have the SCT and have every parameter so I can adjust , granted the Pro Racer Doesnt , I have been Tuning the SVT sense 2002 , I was the first to actually Tune them working with Diablosport then changed to SCT

Tom
 

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Yea sct allows user defined parameters so you can add what you want as far as parameters only though. You can't add patches or custom code with sct which is the largest down fall.

Can you disable theft on the KRAF5 strategy? Thats the 2000 2.0L zetec ecu's ??
 
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