Focus Fanatics Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone know of anyone that can help me obtain a custom tune for my 2014 Ford Focus Flex/Fuel engine for E85 and E100? I own an SCT X4 device but can't find anyone in Northern CA that can optimize my engine for mileage on E85 and E10.
 

·
So mote be it
Joined
·
8,856 Posts
Stock vs Stock, no. But if properly tuned it should make a decent amount more power. Abysmal fuel economy but the fuel is cheaper so "somewhat" of a wash there.
Is there actually a performance benefit to be realized on an NA application? I just assume on a 2.0L na motor any increase in performance would be marginal and not worth the mpg loss/price
 

·
Old Phart
Joined
·
44,596 Posts
Moved to the Duratec TiVCT Performance section.

Originally in Injected's Vendor area where it was lost/didn't fit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
Is there actually a performance benefit to be realized on an NA application? I just assume on a 2.0L na motor any increase in performance would be marginal and not worth the mpg loss/price
There's a performance benefit to be had for sure, but how meaningful is another question. While E85 and E100 have higher effective octane ratings this allows the engine to be more liberal with timing before detonation occurs.

However, as others have said, E85 and E100 both have lower specific energy densities, which means more of it has to be burned to generate the same output.

On an NA car I would be surprised if the gains were big, but I know on Turbo cars that go to an E85 only tune the gains can be very large.

Though one thought, is the engine should make the most out of the E85 automatically, there is a sensor in the flex-fuel cars that tell it the ethanol rating of the fuel supplied. So I don't know that a tune would actually make more power. Typical "E85 tune = Power" situations are when someone takes a car designed for pump gas and tunes it for E85. Here our engines are already able to do that adjustment on their own. So I don't know that a specific tune would do any better.
 

·
Old Phart
Joined
·
44,596 Posts
From what I understand in my reading, the Flex Fuel sensor for these is more of a yes/no than anything to sense percentages. It can tell when it's more than 10% so an ethanol blend vs. std. fuel, after that normal engine adjustments take over.

So yes, the car adjusts to it to a reasonable degree over time while sudden changes get a 'safe' response.
 

·
FF Affiliate
Joined
·
30,369 Posts
e85 does not allways = more hp/tq

If you are getting drum e85 / e110 I can do your tuning but you wont see a lot of gain over what a tune and 91 will do

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
e85 does not allways = more hp/tq

If you are getting drum e85 / e110 I can do your tuning but you wont see a lot of gain over what a tune and 91 will do

Tom


So even though E85 is about 100 to 105 octane I wouldn't see much gain over 91? Is that being limited by the power available in the engine, injector duty cycle, or something else?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Old Phart
Joined
·
44,596 Posts
There are going to be engine limits as built.

Despite these being more adjustable stock to back off from optimum for lower quality fuel (timing, effective compression) once you're back to optimum there are no more gains available without physical changes.

More adjustable is in relation to earlier designs without as many controlled factors, not just ign. timing but cam timing in this case.

You'd need higher base compression to take full advantage of higher octane than it needs in stock configuration.
 

·
FF Affiliate
Joined
·
30,369 Posts
So even though E85 is about 100 to 105 octane I wouldn't see much gain over 91? Is that being limited by the power available in the engine, injector duty cycle, or something else?
I dont know where people get these octane # from but you will not be 100-105 octane from e85 pump e85 you will be doing good to be 93-95 octane

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
I dont know where people get these octane # from but you will not be 100-105 octane from e85 pump e85 you will be doing good to be 93-95 octane

Tom
Google "Octane Raiting of E85" and you'll get a load of pages telling you that it's 100-105.

However, looking for a source that isn't Wikipedia led me to an SAE paper on the investigation of the effects on RON and MON of ethanol blends.

Paper source: Octane Numbers of Ethanol-Gasoline Blends: Measurements and Novel Estimation Method from Molar Composition

Looking at their graphs @ 85% ethanol:
RON: 106
MON: 92

So for the US folks, we rate gas in terms of PON (Pump Octane Number) which is RON+MON/2

Which makes E85:

PON: 99

Now, this assumes that you've actually got 85% ethanol in the mix, which the other pages I'm reading say this number can drop as low as ~70% out of the pump, which will drop you into 91-95 (PON) area no problem.

So I stand corrected!

Now if you could source E100 and know that it was 100% ethanol, then you'd have something. But from looking at this the main advantage to E85 is that it's cheaper than 91. But from a fuel mileage standpoint, it may end up a wash.
 

·
FF Affiliate
Joined
·
30,369 Posts
There make a very cheap and accurate tool thats sold in many places that you can check the E content of E fuels at the pump but this only tells you the E % and not the octane

The problem with the octane is the gas they use when making e85 is lower then 87 , then you have water that gets in it from storage tanks , loading and unloading , water thats in the tanks on every below ground fuel tank in the US , it only takes a very small amount of water getting into e85 fuel to significantly start dropping the octane , was it pure 100% Ethanol when they started the mix , Ethanol and gas mix , Ethanol and water mixes so you cannot see if or how much water is in it

I have actually paid to have it tested and have posted the results many many years ago but they sucked vs what the internet says Ethanol % and octane should be

Some links claim a 10-12 % gain in HP and TQ on NA which is crap , I wont tune or use pump e85 , In my opinion it is an unpredictable fuel and that to me makes it unsafe , kerosene has more government regulations then e85 does

Drum E fuels are different

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
Is there actually a performance benefit to be realized on an NA application? I just assume on a 2.0L na motor any increase in performance would be marginal and not worth the mpg loss/price
You're most likely right. That's a good point because you can only cram so much air in there n/a.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top