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As far as I understand, for dual clutch systems, the B clutch will spin when the A clutch is engaged, thats how they advertise that it is a sports clutch, whereby a 2nd clutch is always spinning and ready to engage the moment you shift. So for me, i expect it to be spinning.

I am happy for you to try your signed(A) idea, but logically it does not make sense, since there is no point calculating negative RPM.
I was thinking during engine braking? There might be negative slip there...
 

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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
I was thinking during engine braking? There might be negative slip there...
I still don't think so. I know what you are trying to say, aka braking will cause the clutch to keep the engine running rather than the engine turning the clutch. But I am happy for you to investigate as it will help the community if you discover something.

The fact is, whatever equation you try: the key point to check is that: If you car is in neutral, the clutch slip should be close to the engine RPM, and that is still a positive number.

EDIT: PratoN, you are correct. The equation should have signed(A). There is negative clutch slip. I have measured in moderate acceleration and driving that it goes up to -900++ slip. I have updated page 1
 

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I'm sorry, but could someone explain to me what's going on in this thread? Is this for some tuner and why is it so cool?
 

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EDIT: PratoN, you are correct. The equation should have signed(A). There is negative clutch slip. I have measured in moderate acceleration and driving that it goes up to -900++ slip. I have updated page 1
Yay! I'm helping!

I'm actually more interested in finding the PID for ISS_A_RAW and ISS_B_RAW so that we can help people determine if they need to replace their clutch or not. haha

I'm sorry, but could someone explain to me what's going on in this thread? Is this for some tuner and why is it so cool?
I guess it's mostly for diagnostics fun? I enjoy tinkering...
 

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I'm with you.

I'm sorry, but could someone explain to me what's going on in this thread? Is this for some tuner and why is it so cool?
I'm not sorry -- [RANT]I'm just a bit annoyed when people use acronyms like "PID" assuming that everyone else knows what they mean instead of taking the miniscule amount of time it takes to type out the full text they stand for the first time they're used. [/RANT] It's still cool that people share stuff like this that they've put a lot of work into on their own so others (who understand it) can use it, too.

From what I can gather, this all has to do with the "Torque" application that can be loaded into a smart phone or tablet that runs the Android operating system. It connects to the OBD-II (On-Board-Diagnostics, version 2) connector under the dash board to read data from the car's "control units" (computers). Apparently the app allows a user to load a text file like the one in the first post to get it to display certain information.

Beyond that, I'm still confused, too. I guess the best way to get past that is to get an Android device and the Torque app and experiment with it, unless someone who is already familiar with it can point us to a good tutorial.

EDIT: I found the definition of PID for this context.
 

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While trying to make sense of this thread I found a few websites that others might find useful. Or not. Maybe some day I'll understand this better so I can tell which for myself. [scratch]

Ford Diagnostic Codes List

Generic/Manufacturer OBD2 (OBD II) Codes and Meanings

Popular OBDII Codes

OBD II Codes Database

EDIT: I'm starting to get the feeling that if a flea in my car's floor mat farts that it will get logged somewhere. Does my car know if someone in the car is picking their nose? (Not that any of us do that, of course.)
 

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I would have thought the disengaged reading would be roughly equal to the RPM of the engine? That would make the most sense to me if it's not spinning at all when it's disengaged. And it should really hover around 0 when you're cruising in gear.

Even so, I would think the A is signed, because I remember it jumping from 0 to 16,000 while I was cruising in 6th gear.

EDIT: I did some data logging, I'll see what I can find out.

EDIT #2: Weird... in my data logging (was done at idle), it looks like my values match yours? But when I'm driving the car I think they're way different.

To be continued...

16,000 is in the ballpark of 2^14 so perhaps the value is stored as a 14-bit number and when it disconnects it defaults to max value. No, that doesn't make sense...


Brian
 

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I have Torque and typically run it on my Sammy 8.4 Pro tablet instead of the phone. I setup logging and have it log in CSV so when I open it Excel brings it in with all the data in there respective columns.

I don't see max data like you guys ... the only value that goes high like that is instantaneous MPG which maxed out, on the last trip, at 234mpg.


Brian
 

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I appreciate the effort that has went into this thread but I am curious to know more about how these pids are confirmed. When I check the values against my scan tool more than half of these are wrong(including your admittedly unconfirmed equations).
 

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Discussion Starter #31
I appreciate the effort that has went into this thread but I am curious to know more about how these pids are confirmed. When I check the values against my scan tool more than half of these are wrong(including your admittedly unconfirmed equations).
The numbers are confirmed with FORScan readings. I presume you are talking equation results here. Different scantools have their own formulas. If you have a scantool you can definitely help this community to confirm the values, etc. Post your results please so that it can help us get a better understanding.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Yay! I'm helping!

I'm actually more interested in finding the PID for ISS_A_RAW and ISS_B_RAW so that we can help people determine if they need to replace their clutch or not. haha



I guess it's mostly for diagnostics fun? I enjoy tinkering...
Wouldn't the clutch slip measured (the pid equation you help with) help to tell if the church is worn?
 

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Wouldn't the clutch slip measured (the pid equation you help with) help to tell if the church is worn?
didnt know there were sensors for church congregations [hihi]
 

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The numbers are confirmed with FORScan readings. I presume you are talking equation results here. Different scantools have their own formulas. If you have a scantool you can definitely help this community to confirm the values, etc. Post your results please so that it can help us get a better understanding.
Well, "my scan tool" was a poor choice of words. My roommate works at a Ford dealership and has one of the Ford scan tools(dont know the name). I don't have daily access to it. I used an OBD plug splitter, plugged in that scan tool and my BT adaptor at the same time to determine how close the values from Torque were versus the ones from the Ford tool. I am not sure how to derive the correct equation using just those sources. I have no idea how you figured out what PID goes with what id number either.

I also fail to see how there can be different equations based on what scan tool you are using. The module doesn't know what tool it is communicating with so the value it responds to the query with has to be the same regardless of the tool. Any derivation of the "correct" equation has to be the wrong answer.

I am not trying to downplay the effort that you or any of the other contributors have made, it is much better than what we had. I am simply saying that for more than half of the pids shown, the values between the actual Ford tool and what I was seeing with Torque were not the same.
 

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Well, "my scan tool" was a poor choice of words. My roommate works at a Ford dealership and has one of the Ford scan tools(dont know the name). I don't have daily access to it. I used an OBD plug splitter, plugged in that scan tool and my BT adaptor at the same time to determine how close the values from Torque were versus the ones from the Ford tool. I am not sure how to derive the correct equation using just those sources. I have no idea how you figured out what PID goes with what id number either.

I also fail to see how there can be different equations based on what scan tool you are using. The module doesn't know what tool it is communicating with so the value it responds to the query with has to be the same regardless of the tool. Any derivation of the "correct" equation has to be the wrong answer.

I am not trying to downplay the effort that you or any of the other contributors have made, it is much better than what we had. I am simply saying that for more than half of the pids shown, the values between the actual Ford tool and what I was seeing with Torque were not the same.
The problem is that the scaling of the data (that is returned by the various modules) was likely to have been determined empirically by the creator(s) of FORScan. In some cases they may have guessed wrong.

What I have done in the past is to use IDS (the Ford tool and thus the gold standard) with my PCM simulator so that there is no guessing (and I don't have to sit in the car).
 

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Is there any "easy" way of setting up these PID's in Torque? (AKA, other than typing them in one at a time)

I was looking at my file system in android and there is a file called TorqueConf.dat that seems to have the custom PID info in it. Is there any way for someone who has all of the PID's configured to share their "TorqueConf.dat" file so we can quickly import all PID's?
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6306985&postcount=8

You want to place that .csv at /sdcard/.torque/extendedpids/

Then you can just load it as a custom PID list from inside Torque.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Well, "my scan tool" was a poor choice of words. My roommate works at a Ford dealership and has one of the Ford scan tools(dont know the name). I don't have daily access to it. I used an OBD plug splitter, plugged in that scan tool and my BT adaptor at the same time to determine how close the values from Torque were versus the ones from the Ford tool. I am not sure how to derive the correct equation using just those sources. I have no idea how you figured out what PID goes with what id number either.

I also fail to see how there can be different equations based on what scan tool you are using. The module doesn't know what tool it is communicating with so the value it responds to the query with has to be the same regardless of the tool. Any derivation of the "correct" equation has to be the wrong answer.

I am not trying to downplay the effort that you or any of the other contributors have made, it is much better than what we had. I am simply saying that for more than half of the pids shown, the values between the actual Ford tool and what I was seeing with Torque were not the same.
Burro, thanks for the feedback. If you can help the community in some way to confirm the equations that will be constructive for everyone.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
The problem is that the scaling of the data (that is returned by the various modules) was likely to have been determined empirically by the creator(s) of FORScan. In some cases they may have guessed wrong.

What I have done in the past is to use IDS (the Ford tool and thus the gold standard) with my PCM simulator so that there is no guessing (and I don't have to sit in the car).
You can search all day on the internet and I'm confident you won't find many sources that will actually contribute for the Ford focus. I recommend we stick to constructive feedback rather than just saying it is wrong value or wrong equation. If you have access to actual Ford equations and ids info, then sharing them all help this effort by leaps and bounds! For eg one of the contributors here challenged the equations and we worked together to find a better equation, is it exactly like Ford's equation? Who knows unless someone with the right info contributes. So I guess what I'm saying is contribute, but think about constructive contribution.
 
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