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Discussion Starter #1
So I have my exactly three year old SE. I decide maybe I want a ST.
Well no ST to be had in the form "I" want.
(which is tangerine scream, base model, only option is the sunroof.) Which is around $26,000 retail.
So I find a dealer who actually still CAN order one (the mysteries of dealer/Ford relations are really really deep and mysterious) "Allocation' is everything.

Anyway I go there and show my car they give me a number. I am...?
They part with $1,250 willingly right up front on the ST price, and Add in $2K Ford cash being handed out but only up through Sept1
(Another great mystery has been resolved wherein Ford used to screw car ordering folks over rebates passed. But now the 'new' Ford is letting the ordered car for a customer to KEEP the rebates if valid at signing. (so the do NOT expire while the car is being built. They are guaranteed!!!!!)


So I go look at a base ST they just got in (blue not a color for my taste anyway, and no moonroof.) I could not drive it (they mentioned it was already sold, and I would not expect them to let me drive it.) But to sit in it was nice. The seats ARE identical to my SE sport package seats, except they include the ST logo sewn in.

I fantasized in in orange.. Anyway we were $1,000 apart when I went home to think about it. They agree they are not giving me a fair shake as my car is a manual. So they say it is not a big seller etc.. Hey I am buying another manual and I have to ORDER it?
Even if the hit my mark, I tonight have not made up my mind if I will jump or fold.
The St would be (if I get my grand) in the end $15,000 (with $3K of that rolled over from my current loan (this includes the state taxes etc.)
... if my car was actually paid off the ST would be an additional $12,000 over the then free to keep.. 2012 SE.

Now is a two year newer and brand new ST worth $12K more than my three year old beauty.
Only I can decide.
I still like my yellow baby very much. [bigcry]

If I were rich I could have them both.
 

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w/ my magic bag
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It would be 3yrs newer unless they find one & do a dealer swap. $12K + yr '12 model w/ a stick? You could look at used ones w/ similar mileage as yours & then check the price difference. As far as your being a stick vs the st= the st is a performance car & it would have a stick & they know it. Of course you know you'd be upside down. Just to add= Have you looked at used st's? What do they go for? You seem pretty smart, not to jump on this deal.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Used ST's? Used?
I can even find any 'new' ones let alone a used one which would also be a base model and only a sunroof. (In Tangerine Scream of course.)
(I would state up front if I am gonna throw ten thousand away it should AT LEAST be exactly what i really want.) Otherwise I may as well be driving a Buick.

So far i went to lay down and was strongly on the side of No I am not gonna sell my car. To thinking over how much I have enjoyed the sporting versions of cars much more than the previous non sporting version.
(Owning the Contour SVT was a lot of fun)
I think I am going all in and either I get the $1K more for my SE or I fold. IF they give be the $1K additional I will buy.
They KNOW it is worth the $1K more And even said so.
 

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Now is a two year newer and brand new ST worth $12K more than my three year old beauty.
Of course it isn't... Not even close.

But then again a new car purchase is often based on irrational thinking (i.e. a want and not a need).
Are you not happy with your current Focus?

The "newness" of a car and the initial excitement of ownership will wear off over time.
Perhaps it simply comes down to how much money you can afford to light a match to.
 

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3 yrs. and the end of full warranty is often when folks consider a trade.

Is the extra fun, warranty, worth it?

Only your budget can tell for sure.

Your great condition trade should deserve a premium trade in price, holding out for a good $ in trade makes sense.
 

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3 yrs. and the end of full warranty is often when folks consider a trade.

Is the extra fun, warranty, worth it?

Only your budget can tell for sure.

Your great condition trade should deserve a premium trade in price, holding out for a good $ in trade makes sense.
Considering the reliability track record of the current Focus (especially with a MT), it seems that the warranty part of the new car equation may not be worth very much, especially with a car that is well maintained and doesn't have a ton a miles on it.
 

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I've kicked around the thought of going ST myself. Like you, I have 5spd hatch, and like you, I would most likely go ST1 with sunroof, and in the most recent round of Ford rebates, I've seen this model in dealers' on line inventories in the Atlanta metro for $21-22k, which is very attractive. (As of this morning, one dealer has 9 ST's, but about 6 are ST1's, no sunroofs. )

I am strongly attracted to the ST's appearance. I have fantasized about opening my garage door and seeing the PB ST, the badging, the center twin exhaust and the slotted spoiler on the hatch. I've imagined getting into the car, pushing the start/stop button and firing up the 252 horses. It's all very appealing.

In addition, I don't have to worry about snow, and when Atlanta ices over, my car stays garaged until the end of the demolition derby.

Ultimately for me, logic takes over and the decision boils down to my own driving versus cost. I drive about 10-12,000 miles per year, and probably 90% of that is within a radius of 5-10 miles per trip, over city streets with 35-45 mph speed limits.

Comments from several ST owners suggest that in day to day city driving, the ST fun factor is kind of lost, that the fun doesn't really kick in until you're in "boost" and with my driving needs I may as we'll save my money and stick with my modded SE. So for now it's settled. No ST.

The next round of temptation for me will likely come around the end of the year, when winter weather keeps people at home, dealers drop prices and I find a filthy PB ST1 setting out in the cold. And the fantasy of opening my garage door takes over once again.
 

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That Guy
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Being someone who has made the switch, I would do it again in a heartbeat. The platform is just so much more fun and lively, stock vs stock. It's a car that can be a blast when you want it to but can also be tame like the SE when you don't want it to.

If the dealership is aware that they should be giving you more though, I would wait for more.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Today I let the dealer wait. They called me at 4PM and we talked. I basically said I probably will not buy the ST. And two reasons: I did not get to drive an ST, which he said i could do and I agreed to come in tomorrow. And also the price on my trade in. On the price he said he would talk to his used car guy. But did not commit to any improvement in the trade price. (Now he had said he would do that before our call.. yesterday) So I do not think there is going to be a real improvement in the value.

Which would actually kill the deal.
Mainly it is due to my car NOT being just like all the other drab POS they sell. It is a brightly colored unusual car, and has a manual tranny. Also not for everyone.
Why is that a problem. Anyone who also hates the endless drab colors would love it. As for the manual. Hell, I am trading it in for a new manual! I expect some respect for the manual tranny, Not "well it is worth way less since no one drive a manual anymore".
I do. [rant] And so does everyone on this ST board
 

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Bottom line is if you can afford it you should do it! But they should definitely let you drive one first (because that will only make you want one more). I traded my 2012 focus s (manual) for a base model ST (black with a sunroof) and I don't regret a thing!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
OK I went and checked the Kelly Blue Book, And the NADA blue book this morning.

Both, wht the various add ons and the one subtraction for the manual tranny, plus a big add on for the low mileage, gave me a auction value of $13,300, and the other $13,340.

Funny cuz' Ford also sent me a letter telling me my car has xxx in equity in a trade. If I add on the low mileage average money to add on, between the two books and add on the amount I still owe that too is $13,300 !!!

I drove a Ford Focus ST2.

It was nice and the seats were good. The other one I had sat in had the partial leather and those were very uncomfortable. But these leather Recaro were great.

This ST2 was $29,980.

Driving it was nice. The car can be just like my SE without boost. The mpg was comparable.. But WITH boost, ZOOM.. A real hot rod. It was fun to drive. They let me go 20 miles. I stuck some gas in it as it was on fumes and no way would I run it out of gas. I reset the MPG, and even with several long stoplights had 30mpg reading at the end. And that with a few boost sessions in there.

So it cost me $8 for the Gasoline. No problem.

My sales guy was busy with another customer so he hands me off the the floor manager. No good. I tell him right off the need for the $13K intead of $11K.

He starts in on how it is calculated and I am wrong... then he pulls it up on the computer,and in the process tells me I must have used the wrong program.. No dude, i went to a LIBRARY, where they have these old fashioned things called books..He is like well this is what we use.. I just said forget this crap. And left.

I grabbed the salesman and told him I am walking due to the fail on the proper $$$ for my trade. And i said I would buy the blue ST2 if they gave me the $13K for my car (plus the 5% off the new car, and the $2,000 Ford financing incentives )

They may call me tomorrow.
I really do NOT want the blue car. But maybe discussing it will work a bit.
I am not keen on Blue. But it would be way less cop magnet than a Tangerine Scream !!
I kind of like white too.
 

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If it has full leather Recaro Seats that's an ST3 not an ST2 as an ST2 only has the partial leather recaro seats.

Plus if it stickered for close to 30,000 that's the 3.

The window sticker is confusing but that's a 202A with ST2 package (201A) which is the loaded ST3 model.

Good luck with your decision. Both cars are nice, but the ST is going to be the quicker of the two at the expense of mpg
 

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I'd hold out for the color you want, not it'll do, as that's some cash. Good for you for walking.
 

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Driving it was nice. The car can be just like my SE without boost. The mpg was comparable.. But WITH boost, ZOOM.. A real hot rod. It was fun to drive.
To boost or not to boost...

Boost is nice but is it worth the value of your current car x 2?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
To boost or not to boost...

Boost is nice but is it worth the value of your current car x 2?
That is the dilemma.
I like my SE a lot. It is very pretty too. Never had a problem, and have a 7 year $0 fee free loaner extended Ford warranty. (which I wll not use up the miles on before the 7 year are up)

On the other side is a possible new car which is FUN.
In the past I have owned A Contour SVT. Which was also fun, but I would bet the ST is MORE FUN!!
So......
I looked at a White ST3. But I think too bland. I really HAVE to go for a tangerine Scream if I am gonna do it.
My best deal would mean paying $about $18K For a $30K retail ST3 car. (instead of the $5K I now owe, This $ would be rolled into the new loan)
So the $5K is rolled in (the new rolled in total is the $18K not plus $18K), though if I have to order, I can cut $2K off if it takes two months to get the car in. or at least $1,250 off if it takes six weeks.. (plus payments never start for an extra month so I would make a $1,200 first payment.
(I can swing $600/month easy. So my loan would only be 3 years. ($535/mo at 6% Ford credit To get the free $2K.)

Is it worth it for an old bag who only drives about 4,000 miles a year?
Is it worth the 50 times greater likelyhood of getting a major speeding ticket?
Major meaning 30mph or higher OVER whatever limit.. and the catastrophic ticket of 80 over the limit? Which with me could happen yeah.(I have driven over 100 way too many time to count)

On the plus side kids driving their own hot hatch coming up and wanting to stoplight race discovering an old bag at the wheel.. Who smokes them.. Priceless. (I had a pretty good reaction time. managing 0.02 second at a dragstrip. Years ago, Hopefully I am still not mentally dead.)

Anyway my main 'focus' is to get a fair dollar amount for my SE. I paid $22,800 for it. I want the $13,000. that is the 'wall'. If no deal, then no deal and I go on with my life. I can finagle a bit, but no way am I taking $11K for my ride.

The main thing is the two Kelly/NADA both say my wholesale is $13,300, and even Ford Credit gave me a clue at $13,300 too.
The fact the dealer is using the black book for the $11k price means they want to make a lot of money off of my trade in. They claim all sorts of reasons, like a manual is so unpopular..(I think huh?) and the Yellow color. In my area the dealers all seem to love bland cars. anything bright scares them.

So I am not gonna give in.
Saturday will tell. maybe the dealer will make an effort. maybe not.
 

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Any time in Pasadena?

Always nice to hear the tales , like the character who decided to stoplight drag not realizing there was a marked car right behind you. (that YOU had noticed)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The guy with his name on the door called. He is offering $12,200 for my old ride.
Which is the $1K more ihad to have.
Yeah $13,300 is the wholesale. But I agree everyone has the right to make money....
So now my only decision is whether to order the Tangerines/moon roof with or without "202A" ($4,840)
Which is the ST3 upgrade.
Now I really like thee leather Ricaro. The rest of the package means nothing to me. Heated seats.. I laugh, (stupid IMO) My closest friends have heatedseats. All it does is make me crazy uncomfortable!
The HID ok.. The better stereo ok, better climate good. 8: screen great, nav ok
So...
I just need to make up my mind if the upgrade is worth it.
More the doodads and features than the money.
SO it basically would be cool seats, big screen nav climate control, and stereo..
What is not to like..
Adds $5K to the deal.. but I can handle that.
All that crap will add to the enjoyment of the car anyway.
So I think it will be a ST3 [cheers]
 

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That Guy
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Make sure you take a look at truecar.com for pricing in your area. My ST3 (exactly what you're thinking of getting) was around $25,500 iirc.

 

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Keep an eye out to see when the 2015 ST is expected to ship. Paying nearly $30k for a car that was released 2 years ago a few months before the 2015 is expected to show up is kind of stupid in my opinion.
For all we know the 2015 ST will offer more flexibility in the options and pricing so you can get options you want without the fluff you don't care about for a price lower than what you're looking at now.
Or maybe when the 2015's start showing up, you'll find a better deal on an 'unused' 2014 ST.
 
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