[LinkZts2000]

Well I have a problem and hopefully I can get a correct diagnosis. I have a 2000 Zts manual and about a week ago I was driving home from work. I was coasting down the hill in neutral and without pressing down the clutch I bumped the shifter towards 3rd grinded the gears. I thought there was a safety to prevent that. Anyways now every time I shift to 3rd there is a grinding noise. Its not hard to shift or anything, its just annoying. And seems to be some rattling coming from the clutch area. Seems to shift into 3rd without grinding around 2k rpm. Any suggestions?

 

[amc49]

Use the clutch instead of neutral and it doesn't happen.................why they put that pedal in there. If 3rd now grinding when it didn't before you have burred up the outer edge of synchro teeth.

 

[msperber]

Most foci manuals have the mtx75 box, your early 2000 model may not as there was an other manual installed in focus. You probably knocked some of the teeth off the syncros.

 

[1turbofocus]

The MTX75 is the only 5sp trans I have ever seen in the Focus

You more then likely damaged the brake part of the syncro by trying to put it into gear with no clutch in

Tom

 

[LinkZts2000]

Thanks guys. That's what I figured but wanted more input before I tore into the tranny. Anyone know why there was nothing preventing me from accidentally bumping it into 3rd?

 

[Joeywhat]

Anyone know why there was nothing preventing me from accidentally bumping it into 3rd?

For the same reason there's nothing preventing you from running your car into a tree at 90mph.

 

[LinkZts2000]

Haha. You know what I mean. Like the restriction in 1,2,4,5

 

[Joeywhat]

What restriction? In most manuals you can get them into gear without the clutch if you try hard enough?

 

[LinkZts2000]

Like when your parked. It stops you from grinding gears. Sit in the drivers seat with the car off and without using clutch try and shift it into any gear. Shouldn't go in any gear

 

[Joeywhat]

Like when your parked. It stops you from grinding gears. Sit in the drivers seat with the car off and without using clutch try and shift it into any gear. Shouldn't go in any gear

Yeah, I don't know what you're thinking of, but every manual I've sat in will let you put it into gear without the clutch, especially with the engine off. This includes my car, it will most certainly let you do all of that.

 

[Magus2727]

Fairly certain that only has to doe with alignment of teeth, not any safety. the only safety is 5th and Reverse.

It expects you to keep the car in gear, you should only be in "neutral" when you are stopped and the vehicle is running and you don't want to keep the clutch in. And for the moment between shifts. not to hang out in.

it will be better for your car to coast in gear than to stay in neutral. think you get better MPG also due to the engine management turning the injectors off if the throttle is closed and in gear vs closed and in neutral.

 

[sailor]

Moved to General Tech Chat, since this isn't a Zetec performance question.

The only safety lockout is for reverse, not being able to put it in random gears with the engine stopped is normal to any manual trans. because of gears not moving to line up.

As mentioned, you can shift completely without the clutch (except for starting from a stop) simply by matching speeds - and you should start matching speeds WHILE using the clutch to stop that grinding, before you NEED gears as well as would LIKE better synchros.

 

[Nmarzoli04]

Fairly certain that only has to doe with alignment of teeth, not any safety. the only safety is 5th and Reverse.

It expects you to keep the car in gear, you should only be in "neutral" when you are stopped and the vehicle is running and you don't want to keep the clutch in. And for the moment between shifts. not to hang out in.

it will be better for your car to coast in gear than to stay in neutral. think you get better MPG also due to the engine management turning the injectors off if the throttle is closed and in gear vs closed and in neutral.

I'm interested in this statement. Is it the consensus that coasting in gear vs neutral is better for fuel efficiency?

 

[Magus2727]

Depends in the car I think. I know on newer cars when coasting and in gear the fuel system does not deliver fuel. Should be straight forward to hook up your data logger and look at the injector duty cycle.

 

[amc49]

Depends on how synchro teeth line up, sometimes several will go into gear and next stop they won't. Nothing in there prevents it other than teeth line up or not. Interlock linkage wear can affect that too, interlocks make sure one gear is NOT engaged while trying to engage another-two gears at one time and explosive situation-interlocks can be used in more than one place in trans depending on design.

Most of the time the outside engagement edge of the synchro teeth burr up first, if not bad and you can still get the gear to engage then sometimes just driving can make it better after a while or it can get worse if tight enough so that going to that gear then damages the teeth more. You'll have to determine that situation. Back when I was in 4 speed drag racing land we would yank trans and simply dremel and refile the tooth tips back to where the shift sleeve would go back across the gap smoothly, instant new synchros until you ran out of tooth length to redress.

I used to field strip and R&R 4 speed Borg Warner Super T-10s in like 30 minutes or so at the drag strip.

 

[dustin102]

Fairly certain that only has to doe with alignment of teeth, not any safety. the only safety is 5th and Reverse.

It expects you to keep the car in gear, you should only be in "neutral" when you are stopped and the vehicle is running and you don't want to keep the clutch in. And for the moment between shifts. not to hang out in.

it will be better for your car to coast in gear than to stay in neutral. think you get better MPG also due to the engine management turning the injectors off if the throttle is closed and in gear vs closed and in neutral.

I am verifying this on the way home. I have a Scan Gauge, and notice every shift it shuts off the injectors for a split second, but never when I coast. It never crossed my mind that the car "KNOWS" when i have it in a gear or not. I am very guilty of coasting in neutral , all the time.

Yes this may cause damage, but I have a 1996 ranger at 150K with no issues... any my 2011 Focus has no issues shifting yet. I wouldn't worry about "coasting in natural".

Every Semi truck i have driven have "non synchronized" gears. If you blow one out, learn to shift without. [smackbum]

 

[Highball116]

I've also heard that the PCM cuts off fuel injection when coasting in gear, but would really like to hear that verified.

Everyone thinks it's cool to shift without the clutch, but you're wearing your synchronizers unnecessarily. If you're shifting a RoadRanger that's one thing, but a Focus is quite another.

Toby

 

[Leora83]

Knowing how to shift without using the clutch: cool.
Doing it all the time and wrecking your vehicle unnecessarily: definitely not cool.
Doing it because your clutch slave just died in the middle of the race and you would really like to finish without getting run over: cool.

 

[amc49]

Coasting in neutral is a SAFETY issue. If someone hits you from behind (drunk) please tell me you will retain presence of mind to put it back in gear and then I will point out how incorrect you are. You may need power to the ground instantaneously, say if you see his headlights bearing down on you in the last milliseconds before contact. You won't avoid it but could easily lower damages to car and yourself. BTDT, I've been there and know of what I speak. Car should ALWAYS be ONLY a fast stab to the gas pedal away from full power, not doing so could conceivably kill you. Even more so with a motorcycle, doing that has at least once saved my life there too.

 

[Joeywhat]

Coasting in neutral is a SAFETY issue. If someone hits you from behind (drunk) please tell me you will retain presence of mind to put it back in gear and then I will point out how incorrect you are. You may need power to the ground instantaneously, say if you see his headlights bearing down on you in the last milliseconds before contact. You won't avoid it but could easily lower damages to car and yourself. BTDT, I've been there and know of what I speak. Car should ALWAYS be ONLY a fast stab to the gas pedal away from full power, not doing so could conceivably kill you. Even more so with a motorcycle, doing that has at least once saved my life there too.

So you're driving around everywhere right in the power band, above 3K or so RPM?

If you're like everyone else who drives, you're probably in a much higher gear and lower RPM, and nailing the throttle in fourth at 1500 rpm ain't gonna get you anywhere fast.