[Pender]

So I put a new timing belt on my car after it stopped running, probably because it was missing twelve teeth in a row.

Problem is after getting it all back together it still wont start. Actually it will fire for a second or two but won't stay running.

The battery was dead and I was trying to start it with jumper cables. Could I have damaged something? I read (afterwards) that it could damage the alternator. Will it act like that if I screwed up the alternator. I thought with a fully charged battery it would still start just not run for too long.

Ideas?

 

[iroc34]

Hey Patrick, how did you do the timing ? Did you use the crank pin and the cam bar ?. Did you double check , by rotating the engine 2 revolutions , and reinstalling the cam plate/ bar. If you have fuel, ignition and compression. The only thing you need is timing.

 

[Pender]

I have taken it all the way back down after starting attempts and rechecked the timing with pin and bar. Everything fits. Can I have it 180 deg off?.

 

[BC_ZX3]

Can I have it 180 deg off?.

No. The slots in the ends of the cam are offset so the bar only fits in one way. When used in conjunction with the pin, timing should be correct. When putting on the new belt, you should ensure all the belt slack is on the "tensioner side" of the belt.
Did you loosen the cam gears? Technically, you're supposed to do this.

As iroc said, if you rotate the engine a couple of revolutions after a belt install and the pin and bar still fit, timing isn't likely your problem.

Next step I'd suggest is a compression test, particularly on any car that broke a belt/sheared teeth at speed. Just to be safe. Then get a decent battery just to eliminate that as a possible source of problems.

 

[iroc34]

Yup, make sure you are getting fuel and spark. How do the plugs look ? Change the fuel filter lately ? Recheck all the connections. And do the compression test. It has to be one of those things.

 

[mikebontoft]

next step: compression test. These have bent valves many times despite being considered non-interference

 

[whynotthinkwhynot]

Jumping the car won't damage the alternator unless you leave it on there for a long time after the car is running.

 

[84572]

Check for a vacuume leak. I just did this to mine because of the same reason(several missing teeth). Had no compression at. All exh & 2 int valves bent(mine is a interference engine). Do a compression check like iroc & mike suggested. This will tell you if you have bent valves. After I got the head & cams on I put the timing belt on. I loosened the cam gears and started at the crankshaft, threading the timing belt counter clockwise, once I got the belt on the exh. cam I turned the gear counter clockwise to take all of the slack/tension out of the belt to the crank, and did the same thing on the intake cam gear, and so on until I had the belt on. Tightened the cam gears. I had the cam bar and crank pin in place. Be sure you adjusted the tensioner properly. If you did all of this properly, you should be in time. I removed the bar & pin and rotated the eng 2 times clockwise and re-checked with the bar & pin. Everthing was good. I started it, but it ran rough and wouldn't idle. Was a vacuume leak.

 

[Pender]

I'm going to redo the whole timing thing. The tensioner went on very easy when I thought there would be more to it. I just hooked the arm into the slot and tightened. Is there more to it? It seemed to take up the slack like that. I did hold the crank in place while pulling tight on the front side with loosened cam sprockets. Although it all seems tight I'm going to try it again.

What I was wondering about the 180 deg thing is that you can have it set with the pin and then remove the pin and move the crank so it goes down then up again and set it with the pin. Does it not matter? I didn't know if there was a crank sensor or anything that might be screwing it up.

I did put new plugs and wires on it with no change.

I can't get the fuel filter off because it is rusted to the strap that is rusted to the chasis. I'm going to work on that next. Isn't there a connection to test the fuel pressure? I can't find the fitting that the book says to check.

I may be grasping at straws but I'm getting desperate.

I'll try to find a friend with a compression tester too.

 

[6SPD_soul]

You should be able to rent a compression tester from a parts place, I'd check that before you tear into it again. You probably got the timing right.

 

[iroc34]

Yes there is more to It than just tightening the tensioner. You have to get the mark in the center of the tensioner. As you are tightening the tensioner with the Allen wrench you will see the marks on the tensioner ARM. When its lined up In the middle tighten the bolt. Then with the cam plates still in snug the bolts on the cam gears. DO NOT TORQUE THESE BOLTS WITH THE CAM PLATE IN. You can break the cams in half. Remove the timing bar/plate , hold the cams , if they are the stock cams there isn't a good place to hold them. I made a tool to hold the cam gears . Then when its all torqued, rotate the engine by the crank bolt, two revolutions. Then reinstall the cam bar. If it fits its good to go. If not you need to readjust. Are you using a manual. It really does help, with the pics.

 

[Pender]

I'll redo the tensioner tonight, if I can get ahold of a compression tester I'll do that first. I've taken it down so many times it really dosent take long to do now.

 

[Pender]

I started taking it apart and I set the pin and the bar slid in fine. Would you still think it could be the tensioner? I know it may not be done correctly but it has been repeatedly started (at least attempted) and it is still right on the timing. Or should I stop and start looking for other things. Advance doesnt have compression testers for loan so I guess I'll look for one to buy or something. I'm stopping for the night, frustrated.

Also, is there an easy way to check fuel pressure?

Nobody lives near Charleston that wants to make a few bucks consulting do they?

 

[iroc34]

I started taking it apart and I set the pin and the bar slid in fine. Would you still think it could be the tensioner? I know it may not be done correctly but it has been repeatedly started (at least attempted) and it is still right on the timing. Or should I stop and start looking for other things. Advance doesnt have compression testers for loan so I guess I'll look for one to buy or something. I'm stopping for the night, frustrated.

Also, is there an easy way to check fuel pressure?

Nobody lives near Charleston that wants to make a few bucks consulting do they?

If you set the crank pin and the cam bar went in , it`s timed. So its starting and dying ? Or just cranking and nothing ? No schrader valve to check fuel pressure. Did you get the FF off and changed ? If not try running it with a little ether/ starting fluid. Easy way to eliminate the fuel system . Just a little in short sprays, just to see if it will keep running. If it does , then you have a fuel issue. FF ? Other than that . If you have spark, fuel , compression. It has to be one of those !!

 

[Pender]

OK, I have put everything together and this is what I have. I can get the engine to run if I hold the pedal about half way and about 4k rpms. The engine shakes and sputters alot. If I let off on the gas it dies. I did change the fuel filter. When I drained it out from the tank side it was like brown water, lot of rust I guess. I haven't been able to check compression yet as I don't have the tools and they are not loaners from the parts stores.

I can't find any vacuum leaks so far.

Shed any new light?

 

[whynotthinkwhynot]

Yes they do loan them, however it's called a "Leakdown test" kit. Inside it is a compression tester. Your Advance dude just might not know what he's looking at. You can simply purchase one, it's not expensive, less than $20 I'd think. I bought mine for $10 about 15 years ago.

OK, so when you checked, you put the cam tool in, but were you able to line up the pin with a threaded hole? Did you double check TDC with a screwdriver in the #1 piston? It really does seem like the timing is off- been there screwed that up myself.

If so, try removing the O2 sensor and starting the engine. This is a wild one, but if it runs better, then you might have been the victim of a mouse in the muffler. I have seen that before.

 

[Pender]

I set the pin in the crank case and the bar slid in fine.

Bought the tester. Results=

#1-190
#2,3,4-180

Nothing bent or broke then?

 

[Pender]

Update #2

Unplugged the mass air flow. Car would idle, slightly rough, but would idle on its own which hasn't happened up til now. Took it off and cleaned it with cleaner, no change. Could this have been my problem all along, I thought they just ran kinda crappy when faulty. Mine will not run at all when plugged in and rough with unplugged.

 

[whynotthinkwhynot]

Compression test = good.

I'm personally reluctant to advise someone to purchase a new MAF without a CEL directing us to a bad MAF. MAF's don't go bad that often, and are expensive, but if you can't find anything else like a loose air intake fitting, and cleaning it doesn't fix it- then ok. It is really strange that this failed while sitting if it did. Did you check that portion of the wiring harness for damage?

 

[whynotthinkwhynot]

Compression test = good.

I'm personally reluctant to advise someone to purchase a new MAF without a CEL directing us to a bad MAF. MAF's don't go bad that often, and are expensive, but if you can't find anything else like a loose air intake fitting, and cleaning it doesn't fix it- then ok. It is really strange that this failed while sitting if it did. Did you check that portion of the wiring harness for damage?