[KPJ313]

Picked up my car after being in for service for a bad hesitation, as well as the land drifting issue.
If I started out in first gear on any kind of incline with the ac on max, it would fall flat on it's face and sometimes stall, unless the RPM's were around 2500.

I picked up the car today, and am having the same issues. They said they replaced the AC compressor and condenser. I didn't see the paper work yet, because there still waiting on back ordered parts to replace the complete steering rack. So I picked up my car until the parts come in.

So my questions are:

1. Do you have any kind of stumbling, or miss fire at idle?
I just don't feel a nice clean idle at all, if that makes any sense.

2. Do you have to feather your gas pedal, while letting out the clutch in 1st gear?
And if so where are your RPM's?

3. Could you get you car moving by letting out the clutch slowly without any gas at all?
The reason I ask, I have to bring the RPM's up to at least 1500 or it will stall (2500 RPM with AC on max). Any other stick shift I've owned you could at least get the car moving by letting the clutch out slowly without any gas at all.

4. Could you start in 2nd gear from a rolling start without feathering the gas?
Once again, any other stick I've owned, you could just drop it into 2nd if rolling without having the car start bucking.

I know I still have a slight hesitation. I just want other manual shift owners input before pushing the issue, when dropping the car to get the rack replaced.

I hope this all makes sense.

-Karl

 

[lscrx]

Yes to the 2nd gear rolling start, I do that all the time. I don't often look at the tach while driving though, so your other questions I'm not as sure of. I haven't really noticed any difference with the AC on or off, it shouldn't draw so much power that you'd need more RPM's to get moving than normal.

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[mattlqx]

1. No, idle is fine. Nothing that I've felt wasn't "normal" car vibration.

2. Feather it? I assume you're talking about something more than just giving it a little bit of gas, otherwise I wonder how you were taught to drive a manual.

3. Yes. If it's let out gently to the friction point. It's of course you to stall if you just let it out with no gas.

4. If you're going less than 5mph, you have to give it a decent amount of gas to accelerate. This isn't unusual to me either.

 

[lscrx]

You have to remember this is a 160hp/3000lb car with gearing aimed more towards fuel economy than performance. Second gear is good for up to 60mph, so expecting a lot of pull when using it from a "rolling stop" is unrealistic.
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[sterg]

I bring the rpm up to 2000 when the ac is on Max because of the draw. Normal for a small engine. There's another thread about this.

 

[trombo]

I've posted recently regarding my dissatisfaction for the intermittent vibration/shake at idle. The only justification I've heard so far is that it's direct injection, it's common. I can't buy into that. There's way way too much of a rough idle the majority of the time. I only hit 500 miles today, so I'm giving it some more time to see if things settle down. My fuel economy on this 2nd tank is 34 MPG, so all is well on that front.

As far as the clutch goes, getting moving seems to be okay. A slight tap on gas to about 1600-1800 and then let it roll out. I can't say I've tried a zero throttle first gear roll out, but it's not exactly a torque monster so I wouldn't expect it to be smooth. I can't imagine doing it in 2nd gear.

I think your concerns are valid. If only you could drive another manual to compare...

 

[bluement]

KPJ313 Specific questions for Manual SE owners

About your question 2, 3, 4:
Mine does the same thing. I used to drive a 1991 Ford Escort GT with a 5 speed and never had it behave the way you describe your Focus and how my 2012 Focus does.
Anyway, I took mine to the dealer and they checked it out and this is their diagnosis:

SYMPTOM CODE INFORMATION
557 -
DRIVING PERFORMANCE > HESITATES/STUMBLE
SPECIAL SERVICE MESSAGES
'21769 INTERMITTENT LACK OF POWER/SURGE/HESITATION WHILE DRIVING - BRAKE OVER ACCELERATOR FEATURE.
IN THE EVENT THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL BECOMES ENTRAPPED, SUCH AS BY AN OBJECT LODGING THE PEDAL. THE BRAKE OVER ACCELERATOR (BOA) FEATURE WILL REDUCE ENGINE POWER WHEN THE BRAKE PEDAL IS APPLIED , OPERATORS THAT REST A FOOT ON THE BRAKE PEDAL WHEN ALSO APPLYING THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL MAY ACTIVATE THE BOA FEATURE. SOME CUSTOMERS MAY EXPERIENCE A PERCEIVED LOSS OF POWER/HESITATION/LACK OF THROTTLE RESPONSE WHILE DRIVING. BOA IS DESIGNED TO REDUCE ENGINE POWER DURING OFF-IDLE DRIVING WHEN BOTH THE ACCELERATOR AND BRAKE PEDALS ARE APPLIED SIMULTANEOUSLY. ALL VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH ELECTRONIC THROTTLE CONTROL BUILT AFTER 01/01/2011 ARE EQUIPPED WITH THIS FEATURE. REFER TO PC/ED SECTION 1. POWERTRAIN CONTROL SOFTWARE FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THE BOA FEATURE. REVIEW WITH THE CUSTOMER BEFORE PERFORMING DIAGNOSTICS.[wrenchin]

 

[bluement]

I'm not sure if this is the actual solution to the problem, but I have noticed if you do take your foot off the brake and apply to the gas pedal it seems to activate the BOA.
It sure is pretty scary starting off on a grade and having to rev up the rpm's from 1500 to 2500 just to take off, fearing you’re going to stall.
I wanted to teach my daughter how to drive and this sure makes it more difficult!
[unsure]

 

[lscrx]

So basically they're telling you to keep your left foot off the brake... sounds like good advice! (unless a pro-rally driver)

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[Eurofordfan]

It strikes me that there is something wrong. When I test drove an S model sedan, with five speed, I felt that the engine was smooth. I was able to let out the clutch, with barely a hint of throttle, and it'd start smooth as can be. You ought to be able to do this, in any car -- and certainly I was easily able to do so in the Focus.

As for AC -- the impact you indicate, well, it seems something is wrong. I would guess, here, that there is something wrong with the "carburetion" of the engine (I know its GDI...) and I would not necessarily suspect that the refrigerant compressor is unduly high horsepower-draining. In light of what you indicate, re the inability to start off as I did, in my test drive -- I think it's solely the engine.

Good luck -- and please keep us informed.

 

[Eurofordfan]

And to clarify, the rpm's were hardly a crack above idle... like about 200 rpm's higher... Very smooth, and if you are gentle with the clutch absolutely no hic-cups.

 

[sterg]

Mine is smooth at idle 99% of the time. Drive fast and clean it out. That might help. When they filled mine when I bought it they put super in also. When I first got the car I was trying to shift with the shift indicator. It just wasn't working. When I drove the car normally everything smoothed out. bMine will still lug a little with the AC on once in a while. I may mention it when I get a list going when I bring it in next.

 

[herbz]

I've noticed a bit of a "stumble" if I don't give it enough gas when I'm taking off from a slow roll in 2nd gear. If I'm under 5mph, but still rolling (basically a very slow roll) it is more effective to put it in 1st with this car. I've driven other cars where you can start from a stop in 2nd gear. Not this one.

Regardless that's not nearly enough to think it's an issue.. Otherwise I think the "balance point" in 1st is a bit tricky in this car. Sometimes I take of flawless, and sometimes I give it too much gas. Going up a hill from a stop is a pain in the ass, but it is for all manuals. All in all I've been pleased with the manual in this car. A little more low end power would definetely help this car, though.

 

[trombo]

On the way to work today I tried rolling out from a dead stop in first gear with no throttle.

Once she started rolling I was able to let the clutch all the way out and roll along in first gear with no throttle. It's no Mustang but it's definitely still feasible.

I didn't even bother trying second gear. The RPM's would get awfully low.

 

[elwood125]

I have noticed this too, i basically attributed it to just getting used to the nuances of a new car (after having driven my 01 zx3 for 10.5 years) Hope that some basic intake and exhaust mods give it a bit of a gain to offset the cars weight gain

 

[Nintendad]

I've noticed the hesitation and near-stall on incline starts as well. I drove an Elantra manual for years and I'm accustomed to rocket starts. I'm adjusting to having to get the rpms up before easing off the clutch. This is by far my biggest disappointment with an otherwise enjoyable car.

It's hot where I live and have not driven the car without the AC on. It almost feels like the car is hesitating while it transfers power from the compressor to the engine. Or perhaps the BOA is not disengaging fast enough?

 

[lscrx]

The BOA only activates if you simultaneously press the brake and gas, I don't think that's the issue.

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[bluement]

The BOA only activates if you simultaneously press the brake and gas, I don't think that's the issue.

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Thank you lscrx for letting me know this. Now I wonder what the problem is.
Is it because the AC is turned on and the engine does not have enough power?
I doubt that, since I drove a 1991 Ford Escort GT 5 speed (1.8 liter engine) with air condition for 16 years and never had this happen with it.

 

[lscrx]

Thank you lscrx for letting me know this. Now I wonder what the problem is.
Is it because the AC is turned on and the engine does not have enough power?
I doubt that, since I drove a 1991 Ford Escort GT 5 speed (1.8 liter engine) with air condition for 16 years and never had this happen with it.

Funny, I drove a 91 Mazda Protege LX (exact same drivetrain as EGT) for a few years. I think It's mostly to do with the car being drive-by-wire, and the relatively high curb weight (compared to our old BP powered cars). The Focus may make a good bit of power for a 2.0, but there's not a lot of torque available right off idle. I noticed the slight hesitation when we first bought it, but after the first hundred miles I must have recalibrated my driving style to account for it.

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[snake420]

So what's considered more gas than usual? I'm usually starting around 1500~2000, and about 2000~2500 on 40º+incline. 1st and 2nd I hold a little longer than the shift light wants, around 2500~3000 depending how fast I want to go. And I usually plow right past 3rd quickly to 4th/5th and coast at speed. Unless I specifically need 3rd, I'm rarely in it long. 30~31mpg hilly suburban + back roads w/ lots of stops signs.

It stumbled a couple of times when I was trying to kid glove it when I first bought it. Wring the heck out of it for a few days, I think the car just needs to experience the full driving range dynamic.