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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Shudder going into gear [SOLVED]

I've looked at other posts here, and they look like they deal with automatic transmissions, mine's a manual 5 speed.

I'm the original owner of this vehicle, never replaced the friction disk, 82,000 miles on the car, still stock, been using an EasyScan gauge lately, no codes found. The car had been on the road for 30-45 minutes before this with no incident whatsoever; this has never happened before either.

Car started to shudder ever so slightly going into 1st and 2nd, and sometimes 3rd; way more prevalent in 1st and 2nd. Doesn't always happen, about 30% of the time I'd say, 35MPH roads, I'd say around 1,500 and 3,000 RPM, can't remember exactly.
 

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Need a better description than that Pantherman, you managed to say a lot that confuses the issue without describing the shifting.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ok, simply put, it started this shuddering tonight. Like the engine was lugging.

From the red light, going into 1st, it happened for maybe a second or two. From the time that I started releasing the clutch pedal from the floor till the time that my foot was no longer on it at all. Same story for going from 1st into 2nd and occasionally from 2nd into 3rd.

4th and 5th gears don't suffer this shuddering problem at all. This shuddering also isn't consistant, it doesn't always happen
 

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OK, I was trying to separate engine issues from clutch problems & I'm not having much luck.

ANY manual transmission can develop clutch chatter, it should be only apparent in first because slipping the clutch isn't necessary for any other gear changes. If you slip the clutch at every gear change more than a minimal amount, any chatter would be more prevalent in the lower gears.

Engine CAN be lugging, or it could have an intermittent miss. If this is only when shifting the intermittent miss can be ruled out. Can't guess at any engine issues from the description.

Assuming it's chattering & the clutch still has some life left, use a little more throttle when starting out & try to slip it to get moving as smoothly as possible. Match speeds for all other shifts to avoid slipping any other time as much as possible. Definitely avoid 'dumping" the clutch when shifting between gears, as this can make a clutch start chattering more.

Repeated smooth engagement can cure a chatter over time, less loss of clutch life than trying to "burn" it smooth with repeated high RPM & lots of slip to start off.
 

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You mean as the clutch slips in the lower gears, you get clutch chatter?

I have this problem on my 07. It's been doing it for the 3 years I've had it. I asked a transmission guy, and he suspected the flywheel has hotspots, caused by being driven improperly by the PO. Manuals have a reputation for being more reliable, but it kind of sucks getting one second-hand because you don't know how the PO drove it.

I learned to live with it. Not worth going in there unless you need a new clutch anyway.

EDIT: beat by sailor. He has a point. I've driven multiple BMWs with the same symptoms as my car.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks guys, slipping seems to be working and making the engagements smoother
 

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That's good, extra slip when starting out in first can be reduced over time as it wears smooth again to the normal minimum amount needed to get going.
 

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I have the same problem. I figured out mine is ECU related because the shudder is very inconsistent. If it was due to any of the physical characteristics of the drivetrain the shudder would happen consistently.
 

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Horsesh-t. There is no RELIABLE logic stream on earth that can possibly lead there.

Shudder by the very nature of what it is is usually inconsistent at first.
 

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Horsesh-t. There is no RELIABLE logic stream on earth that can possibly lead there.

Shudder by the very nature of what it is is usually inconsistent at first.
Horsesh*t. because if it was drivetrain it would've gotten worse after 100,000 miles. the shudder in mine happens once in a bluemoon and only on first gear. how can that possibly be clutch shudder?? by the way mine is a 2012, so different ECU. I saw this was about older version after posting.
 

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Then you need to understand that there is no computer on earth that can predictably determine the engagement qualities needed to accurately shift that trans design forever, they can do it for a while but the vast combinations of how the discs can lock up over varied temps means it's impossible, at least with the software and hardware we have now. If they had just made the clutch wet it would have been doable.

You need to lookup the trans issues there, it is considered to be junk now and a failed design forcing Ford to buyback cars.
 

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Then you need to understand that there is no computer on earth that can predictably determine the engagement qualities needed to accurately shift that trans design forever, they can do it for a while but the vast combinations of how the discs can lock up over varied temps means it's impossible, at least with the software and hardware we have now. If they had just made the clutch wet it would have been doable.

You need to lookup the trans issues there, it is considered to be junk now and a failed design forcing Ford to buyback cars.
I don't have dual clutch lmao. I have a manual.
 

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My bad. If you are that then the computer doesn't even come into shifting at all. It is not involved in the action.

You are now down to hard parts alone as being the problem.

Why does low gear alone do it? Because the load to move a car completely stopped into a moving condition is much higher than at any other time, it loads the clutch more. And, the input shaft of trans speed is the lowest too, shudder shows up easier at lower clutch disc speeds. Past that the minute difference in how driver performs every shift determines whether clutch shudders or not. Letting clutch out too fast with engine too low in rpm makes it more likely to happen.
 

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Exactly, there is no computer for shifting, and all transmission parts were ruled out because no matter how harsh i launch or how hilly the road the shudder cannot be reproduced, it's not the throwout bearing, its not clutch slipping, it's not motor mount- it's not anything transmission related. Hence the engine. You're talking like you have driven my car.
 

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Exactly, there is no computer for shifting, and all transmission parts were ruled out because no matter how harsh i launch or how hilly the road the shudder cannot be reproduced, it's not the throwout bearing, its not clutch slipping, it's not motor mount- it's not anything transmission related. Hence the engine. You're talking like you have driven my car.
There's lot of automation the ECU, like automatically adding gas when it knows i'm about to engage a gear, and holding the rpm of next gear while i'm shifting instead of dropping to idle.
 

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That has nothing to do with shudder. I don't have to drive your car, some people know enough to not have to. I've built clutches as well. The holding of rpm between gears is for emissions not shifting although it can make up for incompetent drivers somewhat.

Shudder is caused by repeat slack take up and release right at the critical moment of almost zero contact at engagement. Flywheel wear with heat cracking or lopsided contact wear, same wear type on PP face, PP springs heat checked to not be the same spring rate right at contact point, marcel in clutch disc messed up (you won't have clue what that even is), clutch hub springs messed up, too much slack in hub, friction surface getting loose, loose rivets in disc, worn fingers on PP release levers all can cause it. The clutch not releasing around 100% of the disc at the exact same time is commonly a cause of it and most setups with wear on them will show varying degrees of that.

'...no matter how harsh i launch or how hilly the road the shudder cannot be reproduced...'

Give some thought to what I just posted and it should become clear to you why that is. I, of course, already know why. Without driving your car either.
 

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Yes, that'd be the usual cause of shudder, and i was about to replace my clutch kit. But it's not that, it just shakes when the engine stutters a bit. You wouldn't know what the "shudder" in my car feels, therefore you wouldn't even know if it's shudder or just engine stuttering, would you? I've already ruled out the transmission, so tell me what else is is if it is not the transmission?
 

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You DO realize of course that it is YOU pointing the conversation in a worthless way this way or that, right? Your incompetence has lead us on a chase for trans issues you insisted were there previously by description, what shudder means when you don't attach 'engine stuttering' to it until a year later. I see at least 3 places where you could have brought up the engine performance and should have before you did. Just mentioning the word engine didn't work as you had already predisposed the thread toward PCM issues which are not common so engine weeded out based on that now DOUBLE mis-steer. Mention of engine STUTTER would have yanked that back out of the vault but no, you didn't go there. If I was your mech I'd tack on an extra $100 charge just for you doing that.

There's a 500 page book on engine problems that can do that with ZERO PCM involvement and I for one am done here, I will not listen to somebody who has no clue of what he is talking about. Lemme know when you can go 50 years and never pay for ANY car repair during that on 4 cars, I'd have yours fixed in 15 minutes but I'd have to push you off a cliff to get rid of your mouth just so I could look at the car quietly. Your descriptive skills and reasoning directions are abysmal. I don't enjoy saying that either.

Sorry but it is what it is. People like you who mis-steer mechs thinking they are 'doing something' are why I quit the business.

You even commented more than once on me and trans issues yet not once ever brought up the engine stutter until now...............(shaking head sadly)

'I have met the enemy and he is ME'.

good luck
 

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Exactly my point. So don't get to conclusion about a car you haven't driven. My point is the shudder was the engine acting up due to ECU. But you had to fixate on it as transmission issue, when i had already ruled out transmission. If i rule out transmission, it's the engine. if it's the engine, it's the engine stuttering isn't it. My point was the shuddering in my car was from the engine. You went on fixating on the transmission.
There you go.
 

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Here's my first post "I have the same problem. I figured out mine is ECU related because the shudder is very inconsistent. If it was due to any of the physical characteristics of the drivetrain the shudder would happen consistently."
I didn't need to describe. The fact is you concluded it couldn't have been the engine. Doesn't matter how many years you've worked on cars
 
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