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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I just purchased a 2015 Ford Focus SE Hatchback with the infamous DTC.

I love it so far. Took it on a country road at 6 am on a Sunday and tour up the roads of central maine. The car performed great. I use the manual shift 85% of the time. Ironically the Free press article came out 2 days after I purchased it and gave me a bit of a scare. I spent a whole day of researching and have come up with a conclusion.

How many of you were explained by the dealer how the DTC works and how it can't be driven like a normal everyday automatic transmission?

IMO I think the transmission is great but wears early and cause problems because of bad user driving habits and the fact that Ford never explained that it should be ( in layman's terms) driven like a manual.

Thoughts, comments, concerns??
 

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Hello,

I just purchased a 2015 Ford Focus SE Hatchback with the infamous DTC.

I love it so far. Took it on a country road at 6 am on a Sunday and tour up the roads of central maine. The car performed great. I use the manual shift 85% of the time. Ironically the Free press article came out 2 days after I purchased it and gave me a bit of a scare. I spent a whole day of researching and have come up with a conclusion.

How many of you were explained by the dealer how the DTC works and how it can't be driven like a normal everyday automatic transmission?

IMO I think the transmission is great but wears early and cause problems because of bad user driving habits and the fact that Ford never explained that it should be ( in layman's terms) driven like a manual.

Thoughts, comments, concerns??
It's not an automatic, so it shouldn't be labeled as one. Dealers should be educated on this, not just tell customers that they ain't driving right. One gave me this attitude and I didn't bother taking a 2014 Focus SE.

But since most people don't have a flippin' clue between what is a DCT/CVT/toque-converter automatic, what do I know...
 

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It's not an automatic, so it shouldn't be labeled as one. Dealers should be educated on this, not just tell customers that they ain't driving right. One gave me this attitude and I didn't bother taking a 2014 Focus SE.

But since most people don't have a flippin' clue between what is a DCT/CVT/toque-converter automatic, what do I know...
A good percentage of ppl just want a automatic, throw it in drive & let it shift for itself.... Your correct on many ppl don't have a clue, but then why should they? Why should they have to shift it? I've driven a few of the early ones & a later one, put yourself in what the mass ppl want & it sure isn't a this trans.
 

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People who don't buy sticks want an automatic. It's beyond ridiculous that owners would have to learn to drive their automatic "like a manual." The Focus is an econobox. It shouldn't require special care by the owner.

Shame on Ford for this shitshow.
This. It is completely unacceptable for Ford - or any of the various buffoons on the internet - to claim that people should be driving their cars differently.

Yes, the DPS6 is what it is: a dry DCT. It's going to feel different than a slushbox, even if you ignore the defective components found in earlier models.

Ford clearly knew that customers did not want a dry DCT that felt like a dry DCT, otherwise they wouldn't have tried so hard to "fix" the DPS6 with programming. While I think it's Ford itself - not the dealerships - who are most at fault here, it was downright deceptive to sell the DPS6 as an "automatic with better fuel economy".
 

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Maybe it was deceptive of ford to sell it as a “automatic with better fuel economy” but you also have an obligation as a consumer to at least partially understand what you are buying. It’s a relationship between companies and consumers. If a company makes something, and you and other consumers don’t like it and don’t buy it they won’t make it anymore.
 

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No, it is an automatic. I don’t have to clutch whenever I want to switch gears.
And yes you do have to learn how to drive your transmission, just the same way you learn where and when to brake on your favorite canyon road so you don’t end up in a guard rail or over the edge. The idea that you shouldn’t have to learn how to drive a car that you buy is ridiculous. Every car is different and how you drive it is sometimes the difference between life and death or a very expensive repair cost or not.
 

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A good percentage of ppl just want a automatic, throw it in drive & let it shift for itself.... Your correct on many ppl don't have a clue, but then why should they? Why should they have to shift it? I've driven a few of the early ones & a later one, put yourself in what the mass ppl want & it sure isn't a this trans.
This^^^^^^^Thanx to Ford for continuing down this dct path & losing customers & all the issues that went w/ it. This is a mass market vehicle w/ a wide variety of ppl buying it. I'd expect the mass ppl to throw it in drive & go. Why would anyone expect anything different. What I don't get is why Ford kept on going down the failed dct path vs throwing in their proven atx from the previous model, yeah they possibly wouldn't of gotten the mpg they were looking for, but they also wouldn't have a good percentage of ppl bitching about this failed trans. & losing consumers in the process. Yeah I get it, some ppl just remember the negatives of one model in the whole manufactures line up & say no more of so & so's vehicles, when they might & perhaps makes other great vehicles in their line up, but thats just the way most ppl think nowadays.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Don't get me wrong, it's Ford's responsibility to explain to the consumer that it is different from a normal automatic. I'm not trying to take any blame away from them. I believe they have to do something about it. I'm just saying let's not blame the transmission for being misused. I enjoy the feel of it and it brings a driving experience I haven't had in a long time.

I bought my 2015 with 38k and there's no evidence of a clutch replacement. I understand by 2015 a lot of the "bugs" where filtered out of the DTC transmission but so far so good

I hope Ford does the right thing but in today's world the consumer will be blamed and it's unfortunate for the people unknowingly buying this product not knowing what they were into
 

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Kind of ironic that they designed these cars with DCTs so that they would be more economical but if you drive them in an economical fashion, you're doing it wrong and will damage the DCT. I personally don't drive mine like a grandma but sometimes when you are in stop and go traffic, you can't drive it in a way that keeps the clutch problems at bay.
 

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OP you should have done your homework better. Hope you bought it cheap.
I’ve driven manual transmissions for 40 years, this drive it like a manual line is bs. I shift my manuals early and max mileage. Smooth and easy. The idea that you have to thrash the dct is bs. Might help a poor design, but it’s not how manuals are required to be driven. Just Ford and dealers trying to deflect responsibility.
 

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Maybe it was deceptive of ford to sell it as a “automatic with better fuel economy” but you also have an obligation as a consumer to at least partially understand what you are buying. It’s a relationship between companies and consumers. If a company makes something, and you and other consumers don’t like it and don’t buy it they won’t make it anymore.
This condescending "blame the victim" attitude is getting old and you're missing the point so badly I can hear the whoosh from here.

People did "at least partially understand" what they were buying. They understood that it was not a traditional automatic and that it would feel at least a little different. Heck, the dealership explained very clearly to me that the DPS6 was a DCT (they did not get into dry vs wet, though). So how much more do you think people should "at least partially understand"? By all means, tell us all how much of an engineering background John and Jane Smith should have before they go to buy their econobox.

While we're at it, I knew perfectly well what I was buying. I didn't need a clueless salesman to tell me anything; I knew the DPS6 was a dry DCT. I knew the difference between wet and dry. What I did not know is that Ford was knowingly selling a defective product and lying to everyone about it. Somehow the salesman forgot to mention that...but I guess that's on me for not asking?

Every car is different and how you drive it is sometimes the difference between life and death or a very expensive repair cost or not.
This might be the stupidest thing I've ever read. I think we're all quite aware that an F-350 might drive differently than a Fiesta and that driving one as if it's the other could be dangerous. But if you're suggesting that two cars of the same general size and design (you know, comparing apples to apples as well as we can) are different enough to justify a fundamental change in driving behavior...that's ridiculous.

The Focus is not a new car. It's a compact economy car. The overwhelming majority of folks looking at the standard Focus (not the RS or ST) has no reason to think they need to fundamentally change the way they drive. Sure, no two cars will drive exactly the same. I don't think anyone has claimed otherwise.

What folks are saying is that Ford actively marketed it as a more fuel-efficient automatic transmission. And let's be honest: the only "automatic" the average person going in to buy the Focus has only experienced is a slushbox. Ford knew this. Ford knew that if you told them they had to drive it differently, they wouldn't buy it. So Ford told them it was effectively the same - which might have been true had Ford performed some marvel of engineering - but wasn't true because the DPS6 is a steaming pile of donkey crap that feels significantly different after a couple of thousand miles are on the transmission. This means that it feels substantially different after owning it for only a short while than it did during the test drive; a modern, functioning slushbox does not generally change so drastically so quickly.

Don't get me wrong, it's Ford's responsibility to explain to the consumer that it is different from a normal automatic. I'm not trying to take any blame away from them. I believe they have to do something about it. I'm just saying let's not blame the transmission for being misused.
Man, some people are dense.

The transmission is defective. If you've read the Detroit Free Press article, you'll remember that even the Ford engineers did not believe it was ready for implementation in 2011, let alone years later when it was still being used and the fundamental design issues had never been addressed.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim that Ford should take responsibility for poor design and lying outright, and yet we should in fact blame the consumer for driving it wrong.

Maybe you're just naïve. Come back after your DPS6 craps the bed and you're in for your second or third clutch pack. Then tell me that we should in fact blame the victim for "misusing" the transmission they were lied to about.
 

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The idea that you shouldn’t have to learn how to drive a car that you buy is ridiculous. .
Ha. No. It's not some exotic car that requires special handling. It's a FN econobox with a non-manual transmission, so it SHOULD be like countless other non-manual vehicles built for many decades. Put it in D and go. To expect owners to research how to drive a freakin' Ford Focus is laughable.

Ford took a massive dump with this trans and it killed an otherwise pretty damn good car for the money. No way to spin it, and no way to blame owners.
 

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If your getting bad gas mileage or gears slipping all the time then I would assume the transmission going out. If your getting random shuddering every once in awhile that's just the reality of this transmission. People that beat there cars and don't know how to drive these are obviously decreasing the life of the already known DTC problems. Ive put almost 60,000 miles on my 2013 ford focus sedan with minor shuddering everyonce in awhile. Other than that just normal maintenance. I hate the thin paint and the rims peeling more than the minor shuddering. Current miles on car 112,000. Love my focus and hate the shuddering to but if you drive these halfway decent there good cars.
 

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I'd think some of the blame goes to the consumers, not doing their research, ect, as well as Ford putting a product out like this w/ a faulty trans on a otherwise decent vehicle. No one else to blame but yourself....Kinda like living in flood plane areas, buying appliances, knowing the difference in roof shakes vs shingles for your area/climate, or figuring out which way your house faces in the morning vs afternoon sun. Do ppl not know or even care about or what?
 

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I have a 2012 and it doesn't matter if you drive it according to what the manufacturer recommended what the sales personis to tell the buyer which by the way came after the fact. If I am going 10-15mph and brake real hard it sounds like the clutch plates start scrubbing or if I come to an intersection and make a right hand turn when I have the right away and if I don't allow the transmission to down shift I get the same scrubbing noise so you learn to live with it and try to baby it as much as possible. I bought mine in 2016 only to learn a year later from the dealer history report the previous owner had the clutches replaced and put a for sale sign on it and oh the carfax did not disclose this. $2000 later and I still have the same problem.
 

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Let's separate 2 different issues here:

1. Dry DCT vs true automatic. Did Ford tricked you into believing DCT = Automatic? Maybe. Is it your fault for believing and not researching enough? Maybe. One can argue both ways. IMHO this is a separate debate and everyone has to decide for themselves. I bought this car knowing what I'm signing up for (DCT)

2. Failing DCT. This is the real culprit here. Plain and simple - for end user shouldn't matter why - DCT (not just Ford's btw) are failing way too often, way too soon. Would be nice if Ford was more open and direct, own their design faults, provide better warranty/service etc.

2.1. Ford trying to coverup item 2 by bringing up item 1 (it's not really failing - it's you driving it wrong) - BOOM, everyone goes ballistic.
I know when my DCT acts up. You know it. They know it. Cut the BS, Ford.

2.2. Some people are now using 2 to argue 1. Something along the lines of "DCT can never be fixed, Ford owns us automatic"... Again, each case is different, but let's be honest - there are some folks who try to play the victim card to their advantage.


To recap - I would be perfectly happy with working DCT. I would be just OK (not supper happy) if Ford owned the fact that DCT fails and offer free DCT swaps throughout extensive warranty extension (my warranty expired at 60k, late 14 model?).
I am not OK with Ford/Sales people covering up DCT failures as something else, regardless what their pitch is. But I am also not OK with people claiming that Ford owns them more than just working DCT.
 

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I'd think some of the blame goes to the consumers, not doing their research, ect, as well as Ford putting a product out like this w/ a faulty trans on a otherwise decent vehicle. No one else to blame but yourself....Kinda like living in flood plane areas, buying appliances, knowing the difference in roof shakes vs shingles for your area/climate, or figuring out which way your house faces in the morning vs afternoon sun. Do ppl not know or even care about or what?

Some.. Like 5%vs95%. Why would anyone with any experience with ford focus in paticular or just FORDs think a car that has been on the market for over a decade would suddenly become a giant shitbox. I've personally owned 4 ford focus. and 2 Escorts. Escorts zx2 were manual and never had major issues for 100k+ cars. about 5 years ago I got a 05 zx4. Did the fluids(besides motor mounts and front suspension. Nothing has been wrong. in 60k at 158k now. Got a 2004 2.3 5spd. Besides the reverse lights not working that I have yet to try to fix and a weak slave or master cylndar it hasn't needed any work in the first 4k beside engine and trans fluid. All need a power steering flush but I just don't have time. Got a 05 focus that needed an overdrive band.. Easy fix and flip. My 13 is a nightmare. I got it to flip and it was a mistake. I had no idea they ****** the transmissions.
 

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Let's separate 2 different issues here:

1. Dry DCT vs true automatic. Did Ford tricked you into believing DCT = Automatic? Maybe. Is it your fault for believing and not researching enough? Maybe. One can argue both ways. IMHO this is a separate debate and everyone has to decide for themselves. I bought this car knowing what I'm signing up for (DCT)

2. Failing DCT. This is the real culprit here. Plain and simple - for end user shouldn't matter why - DCT (not just Ford's btw) are failing way too often, way too soon. Would be nice if Ford was more open and direct, own their design faults, provide better warranty/service etc.

2.1. Ford trying to coverup item 2 by bringing up item 1 (it's not really failing - it's you driving it wrong) - BOOM, everyone goes ballistic.
I know when my DCT acts up. You know it. They know it. Cut the BS, Ford.

2.2. Some people are now using 2 to argue 1. Something along the lines of "DCT can never be fixed, Ford owns us automatic"... Again, each case is different, but let's be honest - there are some folks who try to play the victim card to their advantage.


To recap - I would be perfectly happy with working DCT. I would be just OK (not supper happy) if Ford owned the fact that DCT fails and offer free DCT swaps throughout extensive warranty extension (my warranty expired at 60k, late 14 model?).
I am not OK with Ford/Sales people covering up DCT failures as something else, regardless what their pitch is. But I am also not OK with people claiming that Ford owns them more than just working DCT.
Well put Yanik. I'm just a little confused about the end where you talk about possible acceptable remedies. It is unclear how long you are saying Ford should continue to replace the DCTs. In my mind, it should be for the life of the vehicle. Those affected are already inconvenienced by having to have this done as a regular service procedure (mine three were only at about 10K mile intervals). Small passenger vehicles often go to their demise at the junkyard with still functioning transmissions so these transmissions should be expected to last the life of the vehicle. I hope they can come up with something better than the continued madness of dealing with these DCTs. They should probably focus on a replacement conventional automatic transmission fix. Continuing to just replace DCTs has got to be more expensive than that.
 
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