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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2004 SVT blew out spark plug took to Ford dealer who repaired with helicoil, road-tested everything fine.
Decided to change timing belt, pulleys ,tensioner and water pump. I mentioned SVT's could be finicky and included instruction sheet to try and help.
Went to pick up car... within 100 yards engine kicked light on and had about 1/2 power.

Back I go round 2. They double checked everything and mentioned Ford regional service rep helped them at the belt change as he happened to be there at the time.

They discovered and printed this analysis.

" Roadtest verify cust. concern performeec.test had cvode p1383 moniter pids pcm not changing timing perform pp. test hk test wiring akk ok at this time perform component test on sol. passed check for voltage drop on circuits ok need pcm as per pp. test. "

What are the odds the pcm failed during the belt change?
If the cam pulleys were off a bit would it not kick on a Timing advance retard code?
Any ideas?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Sailor

Why would the PCM not be sending signal to the solenoid in this instance leading them to believe the PCM is faulty?
 

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Thanks Sailor

Why would the PCM not be sending signal to the solenoid in this instance leading them to believe the PCM is faulty?
Your quote from them didn't actually say that.

Just said solenoid OK, wiring OK, showing timing fault.


With the number who get it wrong, if they needed help just to attempt it there's a GOOD chance they did as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
"need pcm as per pp. test".

Last bid...the abbreviations on these dealer Service invoices are kind of hard to decipher at the best of times.

The Service manager did verbally mention that the PCM was not sending signal....just seemed odd coincidence after timing belt replacement. I guess all I can do is try another PCM and see. There does not seem to be a clear consensus on the timing fix once you loosen the cam pulleys. Is it really just down to trial and error?
 

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whatever....

The way I read it, that just says they think you need one.

It worked when you got there, and they don't have one function just quit - or go bad at all as a rule.

Trial & error only comes into play if you don't get it spot on & need to adjust it a tad to make it work right. From your description it's so far off they might have done it backwards.
 

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Here at Bob's Really Bad Shop, we will replace your PCM and find out that the new PCM did not fix the problem. Then we back-track and find the real problem that we created. Then we call the customer and say "Hey great news! The new PCM fixed it! Here is your bill for $-our time and your $-new PCM". Then we sell your old good PCM to a friend and buy beer for the guys in the shop. Thanks for coming in, see you next time.

Sincerely yours,
-Bob

Sarcasm aside, I would do my best to get the shop to man-up and do the right thing... and keep your costs down.
 

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2004 SVT blew out spark plug took to Ford dealer who repaired with helicoil, road-tested everything fine.
Decided to change timing belt, pulleys ,tensioner and water pump. I mentioned SVT's could be finicky and included instruction sheet to try and help.
Went to pick up car... within 100 yards engine kicked light on and had about 1/2 power.

Back I go round 2. They double checked everything and mentioned Ford regional service rep helped them at the belt change as he happened to be there at the time.

They discovered and printed this analysis.

" Roadtest verify cust. concern performeec.test had cvode p1383 moniter pids pcm not changing timing perform pp. test hk test wiring akk ok at this time perform component test on sol. passed check for voltage drop on circuits ok need pcm as per pp. test. "

What are the odds the pcm failed during the belt change?
If the cam pulleys were off a bit would it not kick on a Timing advance retard code?
Any ideas?
Because the tech was to stupid to do it themselves?
Ford has ALL the info available to ALL techs. There's no excuse to not do it right the first time. NONE.


Here at Bob's Really Bad Shop, we will replace your PCM and find out that the new PCM did not fix the problem. Then we back-track and find the real problem that we created. Then we call the customer and say "Hey great news! The new PCM fixed it! Here is your bill for $-our time and your $-new PCM". Then we sell your old good PCM to a friend and buy beer for the guys in the shop. Thanks for coming in, see you next time.

Sincerely yours,
-Bob

Sarcasm aside, I would do my best to get the shop to man-up and do the right thing... and keep your costs down.

I see no sarcasm there.
Only truth.



The SVT belt is not a trial/error or hit or miss situation if done correctly. Ford purposely revised the timing belt procedure to avoid comebacks. Apparently the lackey and the reg. manager didn't get that memo.


The cams MUST be loose prior to tensioning the belt. That ensures a no code and no comeback.
 

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Not necessarily. The only real no comeback is not loosening to make sure the cam phasing to sprocket stays dead on like it was all along, only problem is, it's too hard to teach the techs how to properly tension the belt run and then reindex the VCT back to zero to be able to recheck timing accurately. Extra time and steps become necessary. They loosen to allow the VCT to spring up to zero end position and easier to thread the belt and get it installed, you can do that without the sprocket loosening but a veritable bitch trying to show others how. You have to pay too much attention to detail and most, even many of the best mechs, cannot do that. I NEVER loosen and have never had a problem at all. You can't lose timing that is on all the time even when you reassemble.

If sprockets never loosened then the only timing error you can have is in complete whole tooth amounts and easier to find that big error, loosen sprockets though and then you can have 1/10th, 1/100th, 1/1000th tooth errors and all the combination in between. Much harder to find the smaller ones.

Pretty funny as other engines never loosen sprockets but you still have to figure out how to time them correctly with actively moving cam timings too. Ford techs wouldn't have a prayer using that idiot method there in the rest of the world, it has replaced logical teaching about how to get correct timing in any circumstances, or the norm for everybody else. What happens when you drive off all your best mechanics like they did several years back by dropping their pay over and over to make up for lost profits. Then all you have left are those too stupid to quit, they can't do other things as well. So you have to invent a procedure for dumb-sses and why the original method was revised.

They mention PCM not moving the timing, it really is, just that the timing is far enough off the PCM runs into a limit in the VCT cylinder and can do no more. They're not telling OP that little fact. Ergo, nothing wrong with the PCM. Go back to the Marde post, they're now trying to recoup more cash to make up for their mistake, the American way now.
 

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More than one way to get a good result, and MANY ways to mess it up.

This is the SINGLE most common tech. question for the SVT, usually after it's messed up & not working right.

I've seen solenoids replaced, sensors replaced, even PCM's replaced before folks backtracked to set the timing properly. Often BEFORE asking a question here when they're stumped.

Marde's cynical description is unfortunately a likely scenario. Once a new PCM doesn't solve it, the real fix would be made quietly.

Check that link again for the DTC description, kinda says it all when it recommends AGAINST electrical testing for the code.
 

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It's unfortunate that the old "we'll try replacing the PCM at your expense" repair still appears to be alive and well at the dealerships...
 

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Sad that a dealership feels they have to do stuff like that to stay in business but the way things are now. We are in a new world and there really is no one you can trust to do things right for you except...................YOU. The money doesn't even really come into it any more, they have to work with the employee quality that comes in applying for a job. I firmly feel that is lower than it was 25 years ago.

My son is a super at a chemical distribution company, when the employees are not constantly dumping product over and over to make a hazardous spill and lie and say they didn't even though they know they were caught on camera then they cannot count to ten five times in a row. And b-tching because they are only making $18/hr. What the temp agencies send nowadays. Maybe up to one in thirty people now worth keeping and can't seem to fire the rest to get repeat errors over and over. They have people there who have been making an average of $20K a month in errors to the company and been there for years. It's beyond belief.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Going to give the dealer one more kick at the can, before taking your advice. Being involved in large Auto fleets for many years, and watching the progression, advancement and resulting complexity of cars . I tend to give dealers some leeway in their attempts to keep up.Anyone that has worked on their own cars or motorcycles over the years, understands that engineers and designers under great competitive pressure for "best" performance sometimes sacrifice ease of maintenance and repair at the alter of "look at this neat idea we came up with"
The VCT delete kits, designed and made a available by some pretty knowledgeable tuners for this engine, speaks to the trickiness of this timing set procedure.
 
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