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Max8
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As some of you may know, yesterday I attempted to install the CFM underdrive pulley. Well, it didn't end up that well as it seems that I lost timing (even when I followed instructions step by step) and the engine didn't want to start. After several trials and looking for the right timing the car finally started. I didn't hear any weird noises, no metal on metal, no nothing. I only left the car running for like 20-25 seconds and then turned it off. Now I'm finishing reasembling all the parts that I had to take of but I'm afraid of turning on the car again. So my question is, If I lost timing at first, does that mean that the pistons met the valves at some point? if the car started, does that mean that the engine is fine? Can it be [:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]ed up at higher revs? Should I start looking for new pistons and a new head?
 

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Max8
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
bump
 

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Busy Monkey
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Got me dude, I dunno. But I don't see how doing the UDP will mess up your timing. On my Dtec the timing chain runs right off the crank, it has nothing to do with the accessory pulleys
 

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C2H5OH
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Looks like the Crank Sensor is out of wack I'd say, that or maybe you put the pulley on goofy. I'm guessing there is a dowel that hole fits too?
 

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Max8
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
CFM instructions are not as clear as I would want them... Pictures could've been nice. I'm going to wait until Monday. Final football games tomorrow so car has to wait.
 

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From what I've read on this subject....the sprocket that turns the cam chain, is also not keyed to the crankshaft on the Duratec. Very bad/insane idea from Ford (if that's the case). When you loosened the crankshaft nut, the inner sprocket could shift slightly, throwing off the cam timing. I don't know if that's the case in your situation....but I hope not. After doing such engine work, I always turn the engine over by hand to see if anything is hitting.

More likely..the crank sensor was out of position, causing the no-start situation. I've read the factory manual on this subject (out of curiosity).....and still have questions on the procedure.
 

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We already know that the cam drive sprocket is not woodruff keyed to the crank so when you loosen the accessory drive pulley bolt the relationship between the cam drive sprocket and the crankshaft can be lost if the crankshaft is moved (rotated), which invariably is going to happen. The pulley, the cam drive sprocket and the crankshaft "pinch up" is dependant upon the high torque of the "pulley" bolt and obviously is critical in the valve timing of this engine. You will need to find true TDC (use/mark the flywheel) and verify camshaft timing after every loosening and retorquing of the accessory pulley bolt. Obviously the trick with the Duratec is how to hold the crankshaft solidly at the flywheel end while torquing the pulley bolt.
 

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Next time ( too late now) use a scratch all to mark positioning of EVERYTHING before you remove parts...If it ran the valves are not likely bent...If you smacked the valves into the pistons it wouldn't run.
 

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Busy Monkey
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Obviously the trick with the Duratec is how to hold the crankshaft solidly at the flywheel end while torquing the pulley bolt.

From the Duratec wiki:
(make sure the engine is at top dead center first)
Insert a 6mm x 1.0 20mm bolt in the timing cover. In a pinch, the coil bolts work excellent. Start the bolt by hand and turn it in until you feel resistance. If using a 20mm long blot, the bolt should go all the way in (the coil bolt is approximately 26mm long and will have about 5mm of threads between the head of the bolt and the timing cover). Under no circumstances try to over tighten this bolt. If it doesn't want to go don't force it. The bolt engages a hole in the timing chain guide and prevents the pre-loaded guide from moving when you remove the cam gear.

It may be necessary to rock the pulley back and forth slightly to allow the bolt to be easily installed. When the bolt easily threads into the timing cover the crankshaft is in the correct position.
 

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The Duratec wiki procedure above is NOT for holding the crankshaft for torquing the pulley bolt. You can only hold the crank from the flywheel end. You're looking at "big" torque here. I forget the actual torque spec. but it's an initial torque of quite a few ft/lbs and then turn a further 90 deg., I think it is.
 

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Max8
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
More likely..the crank sensor was out of position, causing the no-start situation. I've read the factory manual on this subject (out of curiosity).....and still have questions on the procedure.
Yeah, I also read the manual and it is confusing aswell. In my opinion it would be better if did things backwards. Do the mechanical part first and then the electronic.
 

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Max8
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok so it is almost time... Any last minute suggestions? What would be the best way to hold the pulley while I'm torquing it so it doesn't move?
 

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Got me dude, I dunno. But I don't see how doing the UDP will mess up your timing. On my Dtec the timing chain runs right off the crank, it has nothing to do with the accessory pulleys

The timing will kill your dtec if not set properly and has nothing to do with the accessory pullies, but everything to do with the crankshaft pulley being loosened or moved. The timing chain runs off the crankshaft and when you take the bolt out it releases tension off the timing chain, thats when the problem of getting thrown out of time comes into play.





Looks like the Crank Sensor is out of wack I'd say, that or maybe you put the pulley on goofy. I'm guessing there is a dowel that hole fits too?
No dowel pin or keyway.

What did you do to "find the timing" after it wouldn't start? Did it turn over? Or did it seem like the engine was locked up?

The proper way to replace any dtec crank pulley is to lock the cams and crank in place (using "special" tools) with the no. 1 piston at TDC.

Using an impact, remove the crank bolt. You need a new one for installation. Then torque to 74 ft lbs....then tightened an additional 90 degrees(1/4 turn). Remove the "special" tools. Turn the crankshaft clockwise 1 and 3/4 turns, put the "special" crank tool back in place and turn the crank clockwise where it comes in back into contact with the tool(crank pin...it holds the crank from moving foward) Then you check the cam timing with the cam tool. It you can't get the tool(straight slide bar) in the cams, then the engine timing has to be set again because something moved. But if you have all the right tools, it shouldn't be a problem.

That is straight from the focus workshop manual here at Ford. If I were to ever do UDPs on my dtec or any other dtec, I wouldn't attempt doing so without the proper tools to lock the cams and crank in place.
 

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Max8
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The timing will kill your dtec if not set properly and has nothing to do with the accessory pullies, but everything to do with the crankshaft pulley being loosened or moved. The timing chain runs off the crankshaft and when you take the bolt out it releases tension off the timing chain, thats when the problem of getting thrown out of time comes into play.




No dowel pin or keyway.

What did you do to "find the timing" after it wouldn't start? Did it turn over? Or did it seem like the engine was locked up?

The proper way to replace any dtec crank pulley is to lock the cams and crank in place (using "special" tools) with the no. 1 piston at TDC.

Using an impact, remove the crank bolt. You need a new one for installation. Then torque to 74 ft lbs....then tightened an additional 90 degrees(1/4 turn). Remove the "special" tools. Turn the crankshaft clockwise 1 and 3/4 turns, put the "special" crank tool back in place and turn the crank clockwise where it comes in back into contact with the tool(crank pin...it holds the crank from moving foward) Then you check the cam timing with the cam tool. It you can't get the tool(straight slide bar) in the cams, then the engine timing has to be set again because something moved. But if you have all the right tools, it shouldn't be a problem.

That is straight from the focus workshop manual here at Ford. If I were to ever do UDPs on my dtec or any other dtec, I wouldn't attempt doing so without the proper tools to lock the cams and crank in place.


I did use the right tools, or at least what CFM calls the installation tools. The bar and the pin. I think the problem lies to when I try to tighten the bolt of the crank pulley. I didn't check but I'm pretty sure it moves a couple of degrees when I torque it.
 

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To what specs did you torque it and with what tool? A long breaker bar?

If my memory serves me correct, I think thats what the threaded hole in the crank pulley is for....to hold it in place and keep it from moving?
 
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