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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why does the MKIII focus 2.0l GDI have such few options for tuning? Is there no demand?
Does the direct injection limit how much power you can make? It's got a high compression ratio too, shouldnt this be advantageous for NA performance? Its kind of a bummer. If i felt like there was something worth getting for a tuner, i would have done it ages ago and done as much as i could with bolt ons. But it seems like the price to performance is pretty poor for this engine.
 

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Why does the MKIII focus 2.0l GDI have such few options for tuning? Is there no demand?
Does the direct injection limit how much power you can make? It's got a high compression ratio too, shouldnt this be advantageous for NA performance? Its kind of a bummer. If i felt like there was something worth getting for a tuner, i would have done it ages ago and done as much as i could with bolt ons. But it seems like the price to performance is pretty poor for this engine.
Price to performance on all NA 4 cylinders is less than ideal. I have all the bolt ons and a tune and yes the numbers wouldn't be impressive (not dynoed myself but there's enough out there to get a ball park) there is definitely a noticeable difference. I personally feel it was worth the cost but I knew going in what to expect.

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Noticeable difference how?
I feel like nobody really wants to stick there neck on the line and make a claim of what kind of gains you can make. Just butt dynos.
Just saying if i spent over 1000 dollars on upgrades to my car without making any real world useful gains, I'd probably be in denial about whether it was worth it too. I'm not saying YOU are in denial, but i think spending money is placebo enough to make one think the gains were good and worth it. I wish i could drive your car and see if i felt anything difference compared to my own.
 

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Noticeable difference how?
I feel like nobody really wants to stick there neck on the line and make a claim of what kind of gains you can make. Just butt dynos.
Just saying if i spent over 1000 dollars on upgrades to my car without making any real world useful gains, I'd probably be in denial about whether it was worth it too. I'm not saying YOU are in denial, but i think spending money is placebo enough to make one think the gains were good and worth it. I wish i could drive your car and see if i felt anything difference compared to my own.
On paper you are looking at making about 40-50 WHP more (full bolt on and tune), not much but keep in mind that is from a staring point around 140 so percentage wise not all that bad for an NA. It pulls harder especially noticeable to me on the low end. All around a better driving experience throughout the powerband (I have a 5 spd) better response.

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
On paper? meaning someone calculated something? or just assuming every bolt on gives you the "up to ____hp" increase every part advertises? or just a guess of how much each part will give you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
to be honest, 40-50 whp sounds unrealistic to me.... 40 sounds like best case scenario. if you got 10hp for an intake, 20hp for an exhaust and another 15hp for a tune... thats considering at the crank, not at the wheels. if we consider a 30% loss through drivetrain (is 30% realistic?) were at much lower than 40 whp. if we consider its only the 12.5% your claimining, i.e its 140 whp from factory compared to the 160 at the crank that it advertises, than you would be just shy of 40 at about 38 point something.
 

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to be honest, 40-50 whp sounds unrealistic to me.... 40 sounds like best case scenario. if you got 10hp for an intake, 20hp for an exhaust and another 15hp for a tune... thats considering at the crank, not at the wheels. if we consider a 30% loss through drivetrain (is 30% realistic?) were at much lower than 40 whp. if we consider its only the 12.5% your claimining, i.e its 140 whp from factory compared to the 160 at the crank that it advertises, than you would be just shy of 40 at about 38 point something.
On paper as looking at what people who have dynoed them have reached. All the number I was mentioning are WHP not crank as no one but manufacturers use crank or can easily measure it. Hitting 180-190 with everything (intake, TB, header, exhaust, tune) is not uncommon. Some won't hit that mark either as every car and tuner is different as well.

And 30% loss is way over, stock dyno seems to be in the low 140's from 160 at the crank which is putting you more in the 10-15% loss range.

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Why does the MKIII focus 2.0l GDI have such few options for tuning? Is there no demand?
Does the direct injection limit how much power you can make? It's got a high compression ratio too, shouldnt this be advantageous for NA performance? Its kind of a bummer. If i felt like there was something worth getting for a tuner, i would have done it ages ago and done as much as i could with bolt ons. But it seems like the price to performance is pretty poor for this engine.
I Tune the Ford Focus , I have been Tuning then sense 2000 and have a great MK3 Custom Tune , Any Tuner that gives you x whp and x wtq would be lying to you , No Tuner can tell you those numbers no 2 Focus are the same , I know I have a inhouse Dyno , I will say I will get you all the performance I can why keeping the Engine safe , If your Auto / DCT I also tune that a well , any Tuner claiming you will make X and Y tell him your going to Dyno it before and after and will he guarantee it and he wont

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
On paper as looking at what people who have dynoed them have reached. All the number I was mentioning are WHP not crank as no one but manufacturers use crank or can easily measure it. Hitting 180-190 with everything (intake, TB, header, exhaust, tune) is not uncommon. Some won't hit that mark either as every car and tuner is different as well.

And 30% loss is way over, stock dyno seems to be in the low 140's from 160 at the crank which is putting you more in the 10-15% loss range.

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What i meant is taking the values that a company such as steeda or K&N may advertise for an intake likely doesn't account for the loss through the drive train. It's in their best interest to put the higher of the numbers which will be the power at the crank. You're saying 180-190whp is common to see from people that have dynoed it. Not saying they don't exist, just i doubt many people would spend money or are unlikely to have a friend to do it for free. I have not seen any Dyno curves after mods from people. Maybe like 1. But again no two cars are alike. If i saw tuners showing these numbers with evidence to validate that the power improvement is likely between a standard deviation, maybe i would believe it's common but i haven't seen anybody make claims. Steel manufacturer s don't necessarily guarantee the strength of certain steels. In fact it's likely impossible, but they can guarantee with some confident interval that the strength of steel will fall into some window, between x and y, and some % of items will fall within that range. Likely a very high percentage. Idk maybe I'm just asking for too much. I doubt people will spend THAT much time dynoing a Ford focus when they can just do it for other cars that have more demand for tunes....
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I Tune the Ford Focus , I have been Tuning then sense 2000 and have a great MK3 Custom Tune , Any Tuner that gives you x whp and x wtq would be lying to you , No Tuner can tell you those numbers no 2 Focus are the same , I know I have a inhouse Dyno , I will say I will get you all the performance I can why keeping the Engine safe , If your Auto / DCT I also tune that a well , any Tuner claiming you will make X and Y tell him your going to Dyno it before and after and will he guarantee it and he wont

Tom
Are you then suggesting it's possible that your tune, or any tune for that matter it's definitely possible that there will be no noticeable difference or in general difference? Not trying to attack you but just, it sounds like it's definitely possible. I can see why one may avoid claiming power gains but i just feel like if someone dynos enough of the same engines, then they would eventually find a reasonable figure to give, and maybe some people make x% less power and others make y% more than advertised. But if you have done them enough, you would have evidence to prove (not saying you don't but you certainly aren't making claims) that some % of cars you have tuned with your particular tune have improved something...
 

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Are you then suggesting it's possible that your tune, or any tune for that matter it's definitely possible that there will be no noticeable difference or in general difference? Not trying to attack you but just, it sounds like it's definitely possible. I can see why one may avoid claiming power gains but i just feel like if someone dynos enough of the same engines, then they would eventually find a reasonable figure to give, and maybe some people make x% less power and others make y% more than advertised. But if you have done them enough, you would have evidence to prove (not saying you don't but you certainly aren't making claims) that some % of cars you have tuned with your particular tune have improved something...
What if I told you that you will see 8 to 12 whp and you get 5 whp you will be upset and feel like I sold you something you didnt get , Many Tuners will be dishonest and tell you X whp , I wont

Is there a chance you will see nothing from the Tune , have to be honest and say yes , I guess it could happen but I have never had a Customer tell me he didnt feel or see any gains in thousands of Tunes for over 20 years

The nice thing about the X4 Flasher if you go back to stock Tune when you sell your Focus you can use the Flasher on another Ford you buy or sell it for 250-300 unmarried and get over half your money back , its well worth the cost

There is hundreds of reviews on here with people with my Tune going back almost 20 years

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Cool thanks for your input. Sure of course I would be. To be frank, i just don't see why you could possibly get an improvement of 0 if it is tuned. Or significantly less that what is "usual" given a tuning strategy that has been used for thousands of vehicles. What is going to limit it though, knock?

I guess i really just want to know why you can't make significantly more. What limits this? Is it an engine that's already close to it's limits? The the high compression ratio induce knock more easily? Is the fact that it may be difficult to improve fuel delivery due to the fact that it is integrated into the engine?

I just want to knooow 😭
 

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Cool thanks for your input. Sure of course I would be. To be frank, i just don't see why you could possibly get an improvement of 0 if it is tuned. Or significantly less that what is "usual" given a tuning strategy that has been used for thousands of vehicles. What is going to limit it though, knock?

I guess i really just want to know why you can't make significantly more. What limits this? Is it an engine that's already close to it's limits? The the high compression ratio induce knock more easily? Is the fact that it may be difficult to improve fuel delivery due to the fact that it is integrated into the engine?

I just want to knooow
The limit is likely just physics. Manufacturers have been improving what they can squeeze out of these little engines a lot over the decades to the point without adding boost or displacement not much else will have significant impact. Adding more fuel won't help if you can't add more air and the intake manifold and head already flow really well in these.

Also direct injection has allowed them to run high compression without the need for high octane fuel safely and efficiently.

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On paper as looking at what people who have dynoed them have reached. All the number I was mentioning are WHP not crank as no one but manufacturers use crank or can easily measure it. Hitting 180-190 with everything (intake, TB, header, exhaust, tune) is not uncommon. Some won't hit that mark either as every car and tuner is different as well.

And 30% loss is way over, stock dyno seems to be in the low 140's from 160 at the crank which is putting you more in the 10-15% loss range.

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Stock with premium gas mine made 160 a the wheels and that was on a Mustang dyno which are supposed to be conservative compared to a Dynojet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Yea? I wish there was a way to know...
The limit is likely just physics. Manufacturers have been improving what they can squeeze out of these little engines a lot over the decades to the point without adding boost or displacement not much else will have significant impact. Adding more fuel won't help if you can't add more air and the intake manifold and head already flow really well in these.

Also direct injection has allowed them to run high compression without the need for high octane fuel safely and efficiently.

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Cool thanks for your input. Sure of course I would be. To be frank, i just don't see why you could possibly get an improvement of 0 if it is tuned. Or significantly less that what is "usual" given a tuning strategy that has been used for thousands of vehicles. What is going to limit it though, knock?

I guess i really just want to know why you can't make significantly more. What limits this? Is it an engine that's already close to it's limits? The the high compression ratio induce knock more easily? Is the fact that it may be difficult to improve fuel delivery due to the fact that it is integrated into the engine?

I just want to knooow 😭
All Engines have limits that come from many thing , Cams , Exhaust , Head Flow , Intake Flow , ETC all this adds up and sets the limits of each engine , Some engines respond to one things changed more then others , the bigger the cams , flow , exh the higher in the power band that it works , on production engines that have to be kept in check along with gearing to make them daily as well as cost effective , There is a reason a 911 GT3 makes 500+ whp and cost 400.000 stock

Tom
 
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