[shadowvox6]

Group,
I am going to upgrade the brakes on our 06 Focus...after 40k miles, the pulsation from the warped rotors on our car has become a safety issue, and I have purchased a set off of ebay..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=370107746352

Should be here Tuesday, and will get installed later on in the week.
Can't wait to see how they perform, and look!!
Calipers, and Rotor hats will get painted....

 

[Ezpimpin]

hmm well ebay always worries me but good luck can't wait to see how they pan out

 

[loudfocus01]

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81789

Read this thread. You'll soon be regretting your purchase after finding out the truth
about drill and slotted rotors. The way pads are made these days, the old benefits of
drilled and slotted rotors are no longer there. They actually take away from the overall
area that the pads have to grab onto. Plus they are known to be noisy and go through
pads a lot quicker. Next time get yourself some blank rotors and hawk pads.
The false knowledge that drilled and slotted rotors are an upgrade needs to stop being spread.

 

[Geezer]

If your brakes are in bad condition almost any new components will make it instantly feel better. Whether there's better options available is the question. In most cases, a set of performance pads and solid rotors would have been a better choice for overall performance, but alas, they're not as pretty. Here's hoping that you won't have any problems.... may the "stopping force" be with you.

 

[jgustafson]

The fact that you got them off EBAY from an ebay brand is VERY worrisome. Drilled or not I would be scared putting those on my car.

BTW I do like the Drilled and slotted design, they may not stop a ton better, but they do whisk water away VERY well in wet conditions. my $.02

Good luck anyway though, I hope they work out for you.

 

[shadowvox6]

I have seen the R1 Concepts rotors, and have installed them on a Chrysler 300M myself. Their quality seems to be excellent, and many members of car clubs I know of use them with no issues. As long as the holesare chamfered (and they are) there is little or no risk of them cracking. I would have preferred slotted rotors only, but they did not have them. Besides, with the factory rotors warping badly within the first 12k of the car's life, these might help with heat dissapation. Also, I will bed the pads properly, that seems to help out also.
I have a method of bedding in the pads that will ensure warpage will be at a minimum.

 

[streetracer]

my r1concepts rotors are awesome. braking performance is still awesome, and now there is virtually no brake fade unlike with the stock rotors which would shudder and have TONS of fade

i recommend them to everyone looking to upgrade brakes..

 

[Geezer]

my r1concepts rotors are awesome. braking performance is still awesome, and now there is virtually no brake fade unlike with the stock rotors which would shudder and have TONS of fade

i recommend them to everyone looking to upgrade brakes..

Brake fade is almost always associated with the brake pads. Good pads minimize fade. Please don't give the rotors more credit than they deserve which is relatively very little.

 

[besthaticouldo]

R1 makes good stuff

however. DO NOT GET DRILLED AND SLOTTED ROTORS. they will hinder braking performance as opposed to solid rotors.

do yourself a favor and invest in better pads and get some stock rotors and have a good braking set up.

 

[streetracer]

have the same kind of pads. only change is the brake rotors

 

[besthaticouldo]

if you had brake fade with stock rotors you have bigger problems. and i doubt its the same pads.

ive had both on my car, hated the drilled and slotted. they made noise, they faded, they cracked. the stock rotors with a good aftermarket pad (hawk HPS) and i could stop on a dime. night and day difference.

 

[streetracer]

when slowing from 140 down to 65 quickly before it would fade a lot and shudder some.. now it doesnt.. thats what im saying. my drilled/slotted rotors dont make noise, havent shown much fading at all, havent cracked, and i can still stop on a dime

 

[Geezer]

have the same kind of pads. only change is the brake rotors

Still doesn't justify that the drilling or slotting is responsible for your improvement. A cheap solid rotor probably would have had the same improvements (maybe even better) for a lot less money now as well as future costs. The slotting will wear the pads much faster. Aggressive use of those rotors will almost insure that the drilling will spider web and cause premature failure. If you have to change the pads in the future you're pretty much stuck with the same ones as drilled/slotted rotors cannot be turned or dressed.

Its a proven fact that a solid rotor has more mass and swept area than an identical diameter drilled or slotted one. A rotor is a heat sink and that's what's responsible for improved braking from a rotor standpoint. I appreciate the fact that you like your choice and they're working for you. Please just don't say they are better than many other options which in most cases cost less but admittedly are not as glamorous or pretty.

 

[streetracer]

the only freaking change was the rotors. how is that not responsible for my improvement? i still have the stock rotors too.. they are fine. not warped or anything. and the r1concepts rotors are pretty inexpensive..

i get that a solid rotor has more mass and area, but you cant deny the heat dissipating abilities of drilled/slotted rotors. and if real world testing cant justify getting them, than what can?

plus, if you can still brake hard enough to lock the tires, then you arent going to get any better stopping distances without different tires. just wanted to throw that out there. i still can lock up the brakes and force abs to work on dry pavement..

 

[Geezer]

Heat dissipation is no longer as major a factor in modern braking as it once was. New pads are designed to operate at much higher sustained temperatures. Simple physics, higher friction temps equals more braking energy. A rotor that can maintain the same temps as the pads is now very desirable.

Back when drilled rotors were invented (fifty years ago or so), rotors did not have internal vanes which provides any needed modern day cooling. Drilled holes allow modern vaned rotors (as well as the old style ones) to heat and cool unevenly. This (uneven heating and cooling) has always been the nemesis of a drilled rotor. It causes them to crack and fail prematurely (especially when compared to a solid rotor). Drilled rotors, as well as slotted rotors, were specifically designed for racing purposes, and as such, considered a disposable wear item like the brake pad. They were replaced after each race, not something justifiable for street use. Pads operated at far lower temps (and tended to glaze very quickly) and required a cooler rotor or drum. This is no longer the case.

The primary purpose of a slotted rotor is not to reduce heat. Their sole purpose is to remove glazing (glazed pad material) from the surface of the pad should it occur and prevent fade. This helps maintain optimum braking should the operating temp of the pad be exceeded which results in glazing. I suggest you read some of the stickies at the top of this page and the attachments written by braking experts that discuss this in far more detail than I have. You're arguing antiquated engineering for the most part.

 

[shadowvox6]

Heat dissipation is no longer as major a factor in modern braking as it once was. New pads are designed to operate at much higher sustained temperatures. Simple physics, higher friction temps equals more braking energy. A rotor that can maintain the same temps as the pads is now very desirable.

Back when drilled rotors were invented (fifty years ago or so), rotors did not have internal vanes which provides any needed modern day cooling. Drilled holes allow modern vaned rotors (as well as the old style ones) to heat and cool unevenly. This (uneven heating and cooling) has always been the nemesis of a drilled rotor. It causes them to crack and fail prematurely (especially when compared to a solid rotor). Drilled rotors, as well as slotted rotors, were specifically designed for racing purposes, and as such, considered a disposable wear item like the brake pad. They were replaced after each race, not something justifiable for street use. Pads operated at far lower temps (and tended to glaze very quickly) and required a cooler rotor or drum. This is no longer the case.

The primary purpose of a slotted rotor is not to reduce heat. Their sole purpose is to remove glazing (glazed pad material) from the surface of the pad should it occur and prevent fade. This helps maintain optimum braking should the operating temp of the pad be exceeded which results in glazing. I suggest you read some of the stickies at the top of this page and the attachments written by braking experts that discuss this in far more detail than I have. You're arguing antiquated engineering for the most part.

Like I said, if I cold have gotten slotted rotors only, I would have. But slotted and drilled is the way I had to go. I don't totally agree with the logic of your argument because there is always heat to dissapate. Even if the pads can handle it, so be it. But heat kills braking....period.

 

[besthaticouldo]

geezer is correct here but there is no telling you two.

you obviously know everything.

there was an instance where a guy had dimpled (better then drilled) and slotted rotors and he lost his brakes in an SVT and damaged his car on a track, if it happened on the street it would have been much worse.

look im telling you...

get solid blank rotors, get hawk HPS pads, get a good fluid, flush it regularly and you will brake better then drilled and slotted rotors EVER will.

we've been through this over 100x on this forum, and the consensus is that you two are wrong and you are making a dangerous decision. brakes are not something to experiment with, especially when so many people already have

 

[shadowvox6]

geezer is correct here but there is no telling you two.

you obviously know everything.

there was an instance where a guy had dimpled (better then drilled) and slotted rotors and he lost his brakes in an SVT and damaged his car on a track, if it happened on the street it would have been much worse.

look im telling you...

get solid blank rotors, get hawk HPS pads, get a good fluid, flush it regularly and you will brake better then drilled and slotted rotors EVER will.

we've been through this over 100x on this forum, and the consensus is that you two are wrong and you are making a dangerous decision. brakes are not something to experiment with, especially when so many people already have

I am not experimenting.....I have done brakes on cars for years.....The only issues I have with drilled rotors is that on some cheaper rotors, if the holes aren't chamfered properly, they will develop microfractures around the holes. The early C6's had these issues. Chamfering the holes corrects that issue.

I was simply sharing the fact I was doing this...I didn't come here to be lectured by those that think that their knowledge is better than everyone elses. The blank stock rotors for this car are obviously not a good choice since they warp easily (new car with 12k warping rotors is unacceptable IMO)

The car will get a change of brake fluid (Valvoline DOT 4 Synthetic) and the R1 Concepts rotors, and the semi-metallic pads. That will be the end of it.

Thank you for playing!!

 

[besthaticouldo]

you said 40k up there...

regardless...you're making a problem where there isnt one.

and for the douchy attitude you deserve what will likely happen with those rotors

good luck.

 

[Geezer]

Like I said, if I cold have gotten slotted rotors only, I would have. But slotted and drilled is the way I had to go. I don't totally agree with the logic of your argument because there is always heat to dissapate. Even if the pads can handle it, so be it. But heat kills braking....period.

All I'm trying to say is there is no longer any justification for drilled rotors (or slotted rotors for that matter) for "heat dissipation" purposes. The only purpose you see holes in rotors for is on high performance cars (some Porsches, BMW's and Benz's) is to allow water vapor evacuation (as a result of huge swepted braking surfaces). These holes are "cast" into the rotor rather than drilled and have a little less impact on the rotors metallurgy as it is repeatedly heated and cooled.

As I said above, and will say again, the amount of heat that has to be dissipated is far less than it used to be. The more friction (heat) that can be created the better you will stop. Clearly the pad must be able to generate that heat and the rotor must be able to retain it for braking to be optimum. In most cases the limiting factors are the pad and the brake fluid. A pad with too low of an operating temp will glaze prematurely when used beyond its design limitations. This is the only time a slotted rotor is justified, to clean a glazed pad. But remember a slotted rotor cleans (removes pad material) from the pads each and every time the brakes are applied whether glazed or not. As a result they WILL wear faster and will rarely help you in typical street driving.

The only downside a rotor plays in this equation is if it is too efficent in retaining heat and causes the pad to exceed its operating temperature too quickly or too often. To keep a modern rotor within the desired operating range, internal vanes are used and are far more efficient than drilling as they allow very even surface temps to be maintained. They allow the rotor to reduce temps just enough to keep the pad within its optimum operating range.

The downside to many of these modern high performance pad formulations is while they work very well at high temps they do not work at cold temps until the pad and rotor are heated. Initial stops can be thrilling at best.