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Discussion Starter #1
Currently running super hubs and changing bearings basically every race in the wagon as we all do. This year ran slightly stickier tires on the wagon and now get maybe a day out of them..... (10-12 hours of racing)

Anyone racing a MK3 that can tell me how your hubs stand up to endurance racing? Bearings are significantly bigger, so I'm contemplating swapping over the front to MK3 gear as it's either convert or buy a couple more sets of super hubs to get me through a full 14-15 hour race.
 

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Thats What She Said
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have you looked at going with a two peice rotor? I am looking at Ceika two peice and venting? its the heat that is killing the bearing now that you have super hubbs. I have two track weekends on my current super hubs and bearings and things seem to be good still but I know its getting warmer than they should.

So I am trying to work with Ceika to find a two peice rotor solution that fits the SVT rotors and size (stay within classing rules for brakes). And I am fabbing up some "backing plates" and to run brake ducting to cool the rotor, the hat, and the hub/bearing.

I know Matt Rowe (5 acre focus) has done some stuff with the rear hub using the MK3.
 
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w/ my magic bag
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As mentioned above^^^ Two piece rotors do make a difference....Keeps the heat out of the hub as well as reduce the rotational & static weight. It'd be great if you could run 13'' rotors. I find the Bear rotors are awesome. Don't forget about Wilwood either.
 

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Granted my tracking of my ZX3 has not been endurance yet so my longest stint was 35 min for a session (and cant go much longer than that due to my blow by and catch can that I need to work over winter).

For Lemons cost for safty equipment is ok. Not sure if the larger brakes fall under that, but ducting will help a lot and the two peice will work. Wilwood has a 2 peice rotor in their kit, there is also TCE (Focus 00-'07 - Kits) which uses the Wilwood caliper.

Massive has a larger kit which may be a better option to find a two peice rotor that works. You running stock waggon size rotors or the larger SVT? SVT is larger than the '05 wagon brakes right? Massive uses a slightly undersized Mustang rotor.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks gents for the replies

So in light of the responses, let me add that I’m starting to gather a considerable amount of evidence that our hub problems are more wheel stress induced/ related than heat (mostly brake), which is why I’m looking at the MK3. I have a couple other teams that can back me up on this as well so hear me out (if others have input feel free, I’m more than willing to admit I’m wrong if someone has evidence to the contrary or pokes holes in this, I’m just trying to minimize downtime and the evidence is starting to point in this direction).

Our wagon is running 08-10 brakes, with Portafield Endurance pads, full brake ducting, hubs checked every day. So while I agree the brake heat doesn’t help it’s currently not the limiting factor that I have found. I will also add that I know at least two other teams used Wilwoods and two piece rotors and they go through bearings quicker than we do, so unless they are installing the hubs incorrectly or something that certainly isn’t a solution. I know we are pushing ours harder than those teams as well as we have run circles around them in the past.

So…. wheel stress! Where I’m getting this from is tires. So again a preface, this is from running many of the same tracks, nearly identical braking points, etc (some environmental differences, ambient temps etc are different, but in my opinion is minimal) so the brake induced heat should be pretty similar in the situations I'm seeing and the conclusion is starting to be verified by a completely other team on different tracks (west coast). Stickier tires = less hub life. Again this is a “duh, more grip more stress on wheels”, cept this increase to a slightly stickier tire is yielding nearly HALF the life in the bearings. Not 10%, not 20%, nearly half. All with putting basically the same amount of brake induced heat in. I would also point out the times below are based on ambient temps from 45-95 (yes you read that right), so one would think more life with cooler temps. NOPE!

Originally I was running Direzza Z3’s and just tried Hankook RS-4’s with basically the same results, I can get at least one-two full races (15-30~ish hours of full on racing conditions) when using these tires, they grip great, but in all temps and conditions. Add the big data point! When switching to a slightly stickier tire like the RE71R (supposed to be the same treadwear, but its most likely an R compound badged so we can use them in the series, we knock a second or two off our lap times depending on the track), all of a sudden I can’t get a full race out of hubs, i.e 10-12 hours of racing, mid race bearing is gone….. This again has been verified by another team when going to stickier tires all of a sudden getting catastrophic failures when they were used to getting a full race. So this stress can also induce heat (another duh) but I’m finding more and more that instead of finding baked gross grease or missing grease, I’m finding the internals of the bearings look like business as usual many times even still having grease present, balls are clean, races look fine, wtf? Now I’m not discounting heat being part of the equation completely, but I don’t believe it’s the deciding factor (at least when talking about brakes), because I’ve heard of another team repacking their bearings and getting only a marginal boost in life (I don’t know what tires they are running, so if someone can chime in about repacking feel free

Again if anyone has a different experience I’m open, but ultimately I don’t think these bearings are stout enough to handle what we are doing to them from what I’m putting them through, so I’m hoping bigger is stronger
 

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Thats What She Said
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Great feedback! Bigger can be stronger. I am also interested in this. While I likely wont do Lemons, there are 6 Hour endurance races and who knows 25 hours of thunder hill or others that I may do. So will want to know.

What bearing are you and other teams using? Motorcraft? Timken?

What is making the bearings bad? you say there is good grease and the balls and the races look clean and fine. getting a noise or have a wobble of the wheel? getting torqued down to the 230 ft-lbs?

I am about to go to a 255/45/R17 RC-1 tire so will be even more grip than my current 225/45R17 BFG Rivals (same UTQG as the RE71R which is a 200 UTQG, the RC-1 is a 100 UTQG). I do have a back up set of nuckles with bearings pressed in, incase it is needed. again not the endurance that you are seeing still, but a lot of the same stress and I am pushing my track width out by 2.3".
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hey magus,

I've used them all, SKF, "motorcraft" (Timken), National, Timken brand etc. As much as at one point I thought the Timken was slightly better, but in august we lost a brand new Timken in 12 hours.

Failure is all over the map, either massive play, massive grinding (felt or heard), no feel of play or noise, but pull an axle and feel grinding and find a grease puke on the back.

As far as torque, I do 220 ft/lbs and once completely stone cold I check the torque in the am before the next days race. If the nut moves during re-torquing a check shows its on its way out.

Thunderhill is a blast in a Focus and was another interesting datapoint in this as MUCH less tire wear, even though we were averaging ~88 mph for the weekend and even though the hubs needed replacement after, no huge failures, versus Buttonwillow a couple weeks ago that we went through twice as many tires and suffered a full hub fracture (no super hubs on that car at the moment, it does now!).

Also if anyone is bored, below was from the last 10 minutes of our race at Loudon NH Sunday. My wagon versus BMW, was a great cat and mouse, too bad I couldn't get by him before checkered, was a great battle! This was on RS4's

 

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w/ my magic bag
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Thats a great vid... Its all about momentum of which that guys lines were tight at times. I take it that BMW had a 4 cylinder?
 

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Need a different type of bearing there like roller bearing instead of ball, the balls have too small a contact area to live under the use there. The different bearing type of course makes everything have to redesign. Better too to spread the two bearings apart some, then leverage does not work them as much.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thats a great vid... Its all about momentum of which that guys lines were tight at times. I take it that BMW had a 4 cylinder?
Hey Felix, yeah def momentum car for sure. One or two places if I had seen the opening earlier I might have been able to sneak by him, but he and I have gone at it in the past, VERY evenly matched. Yep 4 banger, but he def has us on weight!
 
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