[S0C0nFused]

I know this has come up before, but I would like to revisit it.
I am getting a misfire during right hand turns IF during the turn, I apply fuel. Example: Summer: There is a sweeping right hand exit ramp that I can take at speed (but slowing down due to engine drag). At the end of the ramp (if traffic is clear), but still turning right. If I apply fuel there will be a moment of 'misfire'. Present: It's cold outside. ~20F. I am stopped at a stop sign. I am turning right into the closest lane and need to accelerate quickly. I begin to move out, turn the wheel right and apply a good amount of pedal. The engine misfires continuously through the turn and does not stop until I have the wheels straightened out, then it goes like a scalded cat. Could this be the rev limiter? While there generally understood to be RPM based, there is a setting "Max load to turn off injectors" which is set to .250. Advantage does not provide an explanation of this setting however. .250 what?. If the right side wheel is the primary driving wheel, this may explain where the misfire is coming from if this scalar limit is being reached.
Thoughts?

 

[dirtbrown]

dident the 00' zetecs have a fuel pump problem during hard right turns??? maybe something related

do the new zx3's have traction control?

 

[1turbofocus]

My thoughts as well , what is your fuel level why doing this , if it is less then half then you may want to go full tank and go back and try the same turns again

Your suel cannister that holds the fuel inside the tank it to the right side front of the fuel tank , this cannister holds the fuel for the pump , right hand turn on the gas takes the fuel away from the cannister starving the pump of fuel

Tom

 

[S0C0nFused]

My thoughts as well , what is your fuel level why doing this , if it is less then half then you may want to go full tank and go back and try the same turns again

Your suel cannister that holds the fuel inside the tank it to the right side front of the fuel tank , this cannister holds the fuel for the pump , right hand turn on the gas takes the fuel away from the cannister starving the pump of fuel

Tom

The tank was almost full. I had just filled up the prior day and had driven ~ 40 miles since.

 

[whynotthinkwhynot]

OK, first try this to see if it has any effect. Remove the passenger side kick panel. Behind that panel is the inertia switch, unplug the inertia switch, use a paperclip or some insulated solid copper wire to bridge the two sides of the connector bypassing the inertia switch. Drive it around- try not to have an accident because that inertia switch is one thing that separates GM's from Fords.

If the problem disappears, then get a new inertia switch.

I seriously think it's a bad fuel pump, but before having the fuel pump checked out at a dealership or replacing it yourself- you should verify that the inertia switch is not causing the problem.

 

[S0C0nFused]

So the inertia switch shuts off the fuel pump when its an open. Check. Will do!
Oh! how much current is going through that switch you think? Would a 10 amp clippy cord be ok?
Fuel pump >> cuts out during right hand turns only? Ummm. OK! I am not seeing it but I guess it could happen somehow! I will have to take my Ford Mech for a ride 1st though so warranty will cover.
I will update this soon as I get a conclusive result.
Thanks!

 

[whynotthinkwhynot]

^^ Like I wrote- I seriously doubt that's it. Ford hasn't had problems with inertia switches since the 80's. However, it is a possible cause. The inertia switch cuts the power to the fuel pump relay when the switch senses an accident- impact- etc. It could be faulty and intermittently screwing up.

There's no current running through the inertia switch, a paperclip will be sufficient. Just tape it so it doesn't short out.

Somewhere there's a fuel pump relay, I'd see if that would swap out with another relay already in the car that you know works.

Just to clarify, bad inertia switches and bad relays are not common problems. It is highly unlikely, but it is possible and free to check.

 

[1turbofocus]

The flap that lets the fuel into the cannister could be bad as well , the fuel pump is inside a cannister and fuel has to come into the canniter for the fuel pump to get fuel

Tom

 

[S0C0nFused]

The flap that lets the fuel into the cannister could be bad as well , the fuel pump is inside a cannister and fuel has to come into the canniter for the fuel pump to get fuel

Tom

There's a flap? I assume its function is to serve as a check valve. How much fuel does the canister hold? Allow me re-iterate this problem. At a dead stop. Start moving forward and begin to turn right (90 degree corner) while applying fuel. Time elapsed ~ 2 seconds. So maybe this flap is not closing causing the fuel to flow away?

whynotthinkwhynot >> Ok! How do I get the kickpanel off to get to the inertia switch? (tomorrow the weather is supposed to dry up a bit. Its been so wet and icy it would have been pointless to try and get it to misfire. also somewhat dangerous)

Thanks Gents. I will find this. [burnout]

 

[whynotthinkwhynot]

Between the dash and the door you will see a vertical plastic trim cover. Use one hand to brace the top of the plastic cover where it meets the next cover, use your fingers(not your arm) to pull at the sides of the bottom of the cover. It will snap off, try not to pull it violently out because you will break the top clip. Now, clear the prongs at the bottom of the cover so you can slide the whole cover down. Use a flat head screwdriver to remove the two screws holding the passenger side kick panel, and snap it off. The inertia switch will be bolted to the kick panel metal. You should be able to figure out how to unclip the connector from the bottom.

Make sure you have the trim cover inside the door angled slightly to the inside when snapping it back in place. If it doesn't fit, don't force it- you're doing something wrong.



hmmmm, uh, that last comment [rofl]

 

[S0C0nFused]

HaHa! Ok. Got the panel off (thank you for the instructions whynotthinkwhynot, the book leaves out a few little details (like mostly all of them)). I fashioned a really spiffy switch bypass connector and took it for a test ride after I filled the tank back up. I could NOT get it to do it. The closest I got was a sorta "cha-kunk-kunk-cha-kunk-kunk" when letting the clutch fully out at very low RPM and then flooring it. And as it's a diff sorta sound, I don't think it's the same thing and very very short lived. I am going to keep the jumper wire in for a few days and will update at that time. This inertia switch....Is it spring loaded? Is it resettable? What if, during one of my interior detailing jobs, I touched this switch? Could it get into a state whereby the contacts are not fully engaged?

1turbofocus >> I could not find a 'blowup' of the fuel pump w/ canister pic. I will have to go the Ford dealer for that. Is there anything else you can think of that would cause it to do this? (other than the inertia switch which I am testing now). I am running the 104 plugs gapped at .06 (and prob need to be changed soon).

Thanks Gents!

 

[whynotthinkwhynot]

You'll have to purchase a replacement inertia switch. I suggest Hilbish Ford, and you should order as soon as you feel that it is the cause.

If you'll check your manual and owner's manual you'll find that the inertia switch is designed to cut the power to the fuel pump in an accident. It can be reset after that function. I helped a guy recently in a Contour who had spun off the road in the rain. He couldn't get his car to start, crank, but not start. All he had to do was reset the inertia switch, but he had no idea about it. I once witnessed a Chevy Astrovan flip several times, it was upside down, the fuel line had ruptured and it was spurting out fuel all over a hot engine while the key was on. GM's have no inertia switch, be thankful you do, or hope there's someone like me who rolls up on your accident and knows to turn the key off to stop the fuel.

As far as your other questions. There is a hole in that kick panel you removed, that's where you'd push in the reset on the inertia switch if it was tripped. If it was tripped, the car would not start or run. I'd guess there's a very small possibility that you rubbed across that hole with a very wet rag and dripped something down on the inertia switch. There's no real way to know.

 

[S0C0nFused]

Ya! I did not word my question right. I know it's resettable, but it's not a simple switch either. 'Inertia' suggests it's like a pinball tilt switch, so a 'reset' is what? re-centers a ball in a cage? Or its a mercury switch? Unless one knows how it's built inside then it's tough to know how it may react to a 'semi' reset. Oh well, Like I said, I will run with the bypass wire for a while. In the meantime I should take a look at my plugs (there do now or soon).

 

[whynotthinkwhynot]

I don't know how it operates internally, but I don't think you can disassemble it and fix it. You can always try- yours is screwed up anyway.

 

[S0C0nFused]

Just FYI:
Well, this seems to cover it as it uses a vehicle intertia switch as an example.
So I assume then it's a cage type in the focus as well (better than a mercury type imho)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertia_switch

 

[whynotthinkwhynot]

Well, it doesn't really sound like something that would be affected by moisture- neither does the case look like it would allow moisture to enter.

You could try taking the switch out, shake it around violently until it needs to be reset, then reset it and see if that fixes the problem. Probably not, but it doesn't cost anything to try.

 

[S0C0nFused]

Just an update. I still have the switch out of the circuit, and, I 'think' it is still doing it (btw, it is notoriously hard to replicate it with any consistency). But I need some comparitive input plz. So, if you will. Straightline > At very low rpm (800rpm, or idle). I fully disengage the clutch, then accelerate 'briskly'. Right at the transition when I feed it fuel, there is 'something'. Like a 1-2 cylinder miss. I think I could do that today with some consistency as the air temp is ~10f. I don't know if the temp is a reliable factor, just a maybe if you will. So 'PERHAPS' its not just right turns? But rather is really obnoxious during a right hand turn? Or the right hand turn is something else and maybe I have 2 different factors at play here. As I did not document when the issue 1st occured (my bad), and relying on memory (just bad). I am going to change the plugs but gap them at .055. Will update at that time.
It would be helpful to know if that perceived 1-2 cylinder miss is normal or not.

 

[himarxSE]

My 2001 Wagon did the same thing, getting onto a ramp that was a 180 degree hard turn to the right to merge onto the highway. You should strongly suspect the fuel delivery unit (fuel pump). Mine did it full or 1/4 tank, didn't matter. Hasn't done it since it was replaced, but that was only a week agao.

 

[S0C0nFused]

Ya'know, the techy side of me would like to know what the problem is (other than what Tom said about fuel flowing away) with the pump unit. I can just see getting a new one installed and it still happens.

 

[bluefront]

I've seen the inside of dozens of different gas tanks.....not a Focus however. Usually the pump sits in a well or housing of some sort, designed that fuel cannot leave the pump intake dry on any quick turn or acceleration. If the Focus has such a system for the pump, I don't see it being an issue.

Also the fuel pressure takes a little time to drop enough to affect the engine, even if you pull the pump fuse..... You should be able to make a quick turn without feeling anything unusual.

Of course I'm assuming the fuel pump was operating at normal pressure. If the thing was running below pressure specs....all bets are off.

Your symptoms sound more like an ignition/electrical issue to me.....although you'd think it would leave a code.

OT.....do you have the Factory manual that covers emissions? I remember you saying you did have some manuals.

And...interested in getting involved in a group of St Louis/Missouri Focus owners?

Oh.....I remember dealing with a strange fuel delivery issue. Turned out I found a shop-towel floating around in the tank.