[natecarr416]

I lost my keys some how at work the other night so I called a couple ford dealers today and the told me to call stl lock and key. After speaking with them they said they would need around 200 because they would have to go to my work to do it. So my question is should/can I just replace the tumbler myself? Does 200 sound average to have a locksmith program new keys? The car isnt even locked...

 

[Marde]

Paying 200 is normal in your situation.

Changing the key cylinder will not help you because of the anti thief system = PATS.

When you get it done, have them make 3 PATS keys. -yes, three keys.

 

[natecarr416]

Its just hard for me to pay some 200 for a damn key.....technology blows!

 

[Marde]

With 2 PATS keys in hand, you can make more copies easy & cheap.

With 1 (or zero) PATS key in hand = very expensive.

 

[sailor]

Loosing the last key & needing a service call or tow - makes an expensive problem painfully so.

$100 for a key when you only have one left is pretty common, so service call & 2 for $200 is reasonable. Can't get just one BTW, need to program 2 when starting from none.

Getting a third later that you can program yourself is the safe way to go, loose one & it's cheaper to replace.

 

[amc49]

'technology blows!'

Not if you stay abreast of it rather than lag to fall behind. You always make the third key for free while you still have two, all others must pay for not reading owner manual.

 

[mikeeshaq]

You need the following keys
Four 'smart' keys plus one 'dumb'key

One dumb key hidden on the outside of the vehicle someplace, allows you to open the doors but not anything else
One smart key hidden inside the vehicle, this will start your car
Plus three keys, one for you and two as spares

Do you think this costs alot?
Try flying back home and your keys are lost. Just try to get a tow truck in some parking ramp

 

[Marde]

You need the following keys
Four 'smart' keys plus one 'dumb'key

Some people might think that is overkill, but not me. I think your 5 key approach is great. Makes future car key loss issues easy to fix.

I had 2 PATS keys and one dumb key, so I bought a new PATS key online and programmed it myself and it was so easy. Seconds later, I was kicking myself and wishing I had purchased 2 PATS keys, not just 1. Based on how I use and carry keys, I am often at risk of losing 2 PATS keys in one day. I should take your advise and change my ways. Thanks!

 

[tmittelstaedt]

There is one other option (assuming you still have the other PATS key) but I'm gonna get yelled at for this one.

You take the other PATS key to a hardware store and make multiple duplicates of the key - make SURE they turn in the ignition and door!

Than you take the last PATS key and cut off the key part and throw it away. Then you duct tape (hey, we're going for the cheezy fix here so we got to use duct tape) the head of the PATS key to the steering column.

Now your car will have reverted to an "old fashioned" ignition where to steal it they gotta hammer a screwdriver into the lock cylinder and use vise grips to either turn it or break off the screwdriver in the lock. ;-)

 

[Marde]

There is one other option

I'm not yelling, but that is a bad hack. Some people might do that in desperation but please... it is not recommended. As a test, I tried something similar during my process of adding a new PATS key and the cylinder PATS key sensor-ring is very sensitive to the exact placement of where the key "chip" lies next to to the ring. Good luck with duct tape and PATS-chip placement on the sensor ring.

The OP had zero PATS keys, so your idea will not help him. This thread morphed into how to avoid future problems of being unable to unlock or start your car.

 

[sailor]

TM's "hack" has a long history here, to the point of pictures in threads of taking the key apart & affixing the "chip" inside the column.

Kills the one great feature of PATS, no-one being able to drive the car away with nothing but a slide hammer to pull the lock & a screwdriver to turn the ignition.

 

[tmittelstaedt]

Right it does sailor but do you really think anyone would be wanting to steal THIS car:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtemFZma1Wg

PATS hasn't been around for long enough to see a lot of this kind of thing - most of the anti-PATS hacks I've seen were from geezers who hated the "new" system and wanted to go back to "the old way" but I'm betting that as more PATS-enabled cars age out of the system we will see this hack employed more and more.

Besides which, don't forget the immunization effect of PATS. If you do the take-apart-the-steering-column trick to hide the transponder then it's not going to be visible - a car thief who is scoping out cars is not likely to assume that a PATS-enabled car has had this hack done.

I don't see a lot of beater cars on the road where I live - we don't use salt on the roads here so cars last forever (unless they get smashed up) but on the East coast I understand that most 10 year old cars are having large chunks of fenders and whatnot completely rusted through, so people may want to get creative there.

 

[Marde]

IF you have only one PATS key and you need to do that hack because of a severe lack of cash, I get it, and totally understand. tmittelstaedt, you have twisted this thread and almost justified why that hack should be done; I do not agree.

IF you look at most (and the OP) situations, you might agree that making new PATS keys, plus a few extra copies, is the better and much wiser choice and is not too much more cash (dependent on the situation). Especially if you compare it to losing the second-to-last OR the very-last PATS key.

This thread was about starting from zero keys... and then it added how not to get back to zero keys... or future big cost lost key fixes. Despite your excellent descriptions of why to hack the PATS when your car is junk(?) I still do not agree. That hack should only be done in extremely desperate & strange 1-key situations. Rant? Who me? Never.

Cheers!

 

[mikeeshaq]

This is NOT confirmed
But I think with a 'cloned' key when the battery wears down then the 'cloned' PATS function dies permantly

 

[amc49]

I agree with TM and have done it, the chip actually simply comes out of the key top once you pry the holder up, like a round ended old school glass fuse. It, after loading it into a length of vacuum hose to shock proof, can be plastic wiretied to a notch right over the pats ring (under steering column covers of course) to never mess up at all, I use normal cheap $3.50 keys on the car. I have the 3 keys, just playing the odds of whether someone would be stupid enough to steal such a junkpile. Been working flawlessly for a couple years now.

 

[sailor]

This is NOT confirmed
But I think with a 'cloned' key when the battery wears down then the 'cloned' PATS function dies permantly

Wouldn't want to use a "cloned" key from the stories about them. Battery dies & it's junk isn't a very dependable key!

Need two just to avoid being stranded when a battery goes...


Bypassing PATS can work for a few, when they're lucky or not worried about theft.

Discourage it anyways myself. It's like folks getting by without immunizations, "herd immunity" only works while most are protected - once skipping immunizations (or bypassing PATS) is done by more than a tiny percentage the danger increases for all.

 

[twiggss]

hmmmmm, me thinks I might go get a few extra keys made.

 

[amc49]

So far we ARE the tiny part and counting on staying that way LOL..........most ARE protected still.

 

[tmittelstaedt]

Actually I've HAD vehicles stolen - 2 of them in fact. One was a true "beater" car, it was a 1978 Datsun 510 that looked like someone had attempted to repaint it with a case of rattle cans and the paint from that had lasted for about a year then started peeling off. I got that one back - although the attendant at the impound yard was very unhappy when I walked up to my car, inserted a large screwdriver into the already busted up ignition lock, and proceeded to hammer the ignition into the "on" position then hotwired the starter to start the car. He so very much wanted to sell me locksmithing services in his very own yard (probably at a ruinous cost with a hefty kickback from whatever locksmith was in his pocket) I drove it home and disassembled the steering plastic and replaced the lock.

The second was a 1977 Kawasaki KZ650 and my only wish after I die is that St Peter will show me who exactly it was that stole it so that I can get every pigeon in the city to constantly crap on his head until the day he dies whereupon I will meet him at the pearly gates and beat the hell out of him. I never did get that bike back.

Neither was PATS of course. So yes I welcome making it harder for thieves to steal cars.

Unfortunately, however, the Ford PATS system was cracked years ago:

https://web.archive.org/web/20050307183504/http://rfid-analysis.org/

http://www.jhu.edu/news/home05/jan05/rfid.html

 

[sailor]

Pigeon crap is mild for that...

I had an XS650 when my roomie had a KZ650, picture is handy of us on vacation with our red Cycles.

That's one way to "crack" it, but it needs access to the key for the car - won't work without getting near a key coded in the car's system.