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There is a lot of talk about Air Fuel ratio and where it should be on a Focus, This is what I feel is needed and why I choose the AF I tune with

Lets start with NA , Na cars can get away with a leaner condition , I shoot for 12.6 to 12.8 on NA Focus on 11.0 compression or lower as cams and compression go up I tend to go richer with the AF

FI I tune in the 10.4 to 10.6 and have found tuning them in the mid 11`s vs the mid 10`s looses no HP or TQ , what I have found that dyno AF and real work AF change quickly , meaning if you tune on the dyno to mid 11`s and go to the track or like doing long 3,4,5 gear runs you will see the AF creap up as much as 1 full point or more , this is to lean in my opinion , this also in my opinion is one of the things that killed soooo many engines on the PW SVT engines with there tuning , there target AF was to lean

What is scary about all this is you get comments from people that some may listen to and this comes from a guy that does nothing more then watches guys tune
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"Now some will swear to you that that is way too lean but the fact of the matter is that I see no reason that you should EVER see 10s

and of course my focus make the most power somewhere between 13.0 and 12.2:1

My personal car, even though it is made the most power at about 12.5, is tuned to stay as close to 12.0 as possible to be "safe" and I have driven the piss out of it in 95deg plus and 30deg weather with no issues.
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When I say 10.5 is safe and does not loose any HP/TQ its because I have tested it there and found this to be true and have MANY customers out there now running it with no issues , My guess is the guy making these statements hasent done ANY testing on his own to confirm what he is stating and to say his car makes the most power at 12.5 WITH A tURBO I am sure it does because lean to the point of hurting the engine will allways be the most power an engine can make , 12.0 A/F Turbocharged Focus IS NOT SAFE and I dont think you can find a tuner that will say it is

It is safer to loose a little power with a richer AF then to loose an engine , I hate seeing dynos of borderline A/F knowing what WILL happen in time

Tom
 

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I dont like seeing 12's for the AFR either... I try to stay below 11.2 when running in the higher gears.... 4th or higher (where it tends to lean out).

I'd always rather be a little rich than a little lean.
 

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Whats a little fuel when you have 8 grand in an engine and turbo.
 

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There is a lot of talk about Air Fuel ratio and where it should be on a Focus, This is what I feel is needed and why I choose the AF I tune with

Lets start with NA , Na cars can get away with a leaner condition , I shoot for 12.6 to 12.8 on NA Focus on 11.0 compression or lower as cams and compression go up I tend to go richer with the AF

FI I tune in the 10.4 to 10.6 and have found tuning them in the mid 11`s vs the mid 10`s looses no HP or TQ , what I have found that dyno AF and real work AF change quickly , meaning if you tune on the dyno to mid 11`s and go to the track or like doing long 3,4,5 gear runs you will see the AF creap up as much as 1 full point or more , this is to lean in my opinion , this also in my opinion is one of the things that killed soooo many engines on the PW SVT engines with there tuning , there target AF was to lean

What is scary about all this is you get comments from people that some may listen to and this comes from a guy that does nothing more then watches guys tune
------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE
"Now some will swear to you that that is way too lean but the fact of the matter is that I see no reason that you should EVER see 10s

and of course my focus make the most power somewhere between 13.0 and 12.2:1

My personal car, even though it is made the most power at about 12.5, is tuned to stay as close to 12.0 as possible to be "safe" and I have driven the piss out of it in 95deg plus and 30deg weather with no issues.
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When I say 10.5 is safe and does not loose any HP/TQ its because I have tested it there and found this to be true and have MANY customers out there now running it with no issues , My guess is the guy making these statements hasent done ANY testing on his own to confirm what he is stating and to say his car makes the most power at 12.5 WITH A tURBO I am sure it does because lean to the point of hurting the engine will allways be the most power an engine can make , 12.0 A/F Turbocharged Focus IS NOT SAFE and I dont think you can find a tuner that will say it is

It is safer to loose a little power with a richer AF then to loose an engine , I hate seeing dynos of borderline A/F knowing what WILL happen in time

Tom
Tom Who are you quoting??
 

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^^ I see a debate on FocalJet about this very same issues so I guess it may have something to do with that. I think Ja-Red posted something like that IIRC. BTW, my car was tuned by Tom and it runs in the mid to low 10's. Don't have a dyno on the island right now so can't say what power it makes though.
 

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Tom, is 13.2 too lean for NA at WOT???
 

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Thanks Tom for making a thread like this too help everyone out because i have also seen alot of ppl with lean WOT conditions
 

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Focaljet??? wow now why if WE say this the number one place to be we still go over to Focaljet. lol should be ashame to bring stuff back to focusfanatics.

it's help full to understand what's safe and what others are doing.
 

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Hey bigfonsz atleast Tom is looking out for everyone even if it FJ We all owns foci here and we all never want to blow our engine
 

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Hey bigfonsz atleast Tom is looking out for everyone even if it FJ We all owns foci here and we all never want to blow our engine
what you say is right. looking out for us no. telling us what he does is nice for everyone to test out. every car is not the same. I'm sure he didn't always tune in the 10's this happen over time with everything he has been thur with his customers.

You have to blow a few engine to understand what's safe and what not safe. SO what I'm getting to is going to other site and trying bring stuff back to this site is not looking out for us. That's what I think and if he really want's to help he should try not and quote what's on other site and then say what he doesn't do.

That's all I'm saying. [idea] BTW you ready for your tune? I'm looking forward to see what you make now you have rebuild your engine. Going to do some race fuel?
 

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Fonsz i get it tuned this friday (19th) and if everything goes well i think i might get a race gas tune :) But im so ready to WOT my car its been 3 months
 

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I know not everyone always agrees with Tom, and sometimes it seems that people swat at the hive because Tom is involved, but this is solid advice.
Yeah, yeah, I know..... Who am I to say so?


I haven't bought any tuning software for my Foci, but have a ton of experience tuning supercharged GMs and 10.5 was ALWAYS my target A/F ratio.
I have seen many a piston with a chipped ring land in it from 'just right' A/F ratios (12:1 A/F or so)

I've even shot for fatter A/F ratios past 6 grand for even more safety on tweaked out to the limit motors.

I've always said even as expensive as fuel is per gallon, it's still cheaper than pulling a popped engine.
[bigcry]

I'll give up a few HP to have my motor here another day.
 

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And really when were talking about a AFR of lets say 12.0 to a AFR of a 10.6 were talking maybe 5hp maybe 7hp but i doubt it
 

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Discussion Starter #16
what you say is right. looking out for us no. telling us what he does is nice for everyone to test out. every car is not the same. I'm sure he didn't always tune in the 10's this happen over time with everything he has been thur with his customers.
How is it I am not looking out for the Focus community , I post up as much if not more info about the Focus as anyone and have done more testing the the next 2 Focus shops combined , I have been in the mid 10`s now for about a year and a half ,Not sure what the comment about "everything he has been thur with his customers"

You have to blow a few engine to understand what's safe and what not safe. SO what I'm getting to is going to other site and trying bring stuff back to this site is not looking out for us. That's what I think and if he really want's to help he should try not and quote what's on other site and then say what he doesn't do.
Sorry I dont blow engines just to find out what is going to happen , I know what is safe and what is not safe , what I want to find out with testing is how far can I push it to the safe side with out a loss of power , where other tuners try to push it to how much HP can I make with out it blowing up

Misinformation is misinformation does not matter if it is here or other places , Here I can change the misinsormation and correct it where the mistake and blown engines wont happen here unlike the other place where a "tuner" had the chance to help and said a lot about nothing

Tom
 

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Very helpful information to know Tom.[thumb]

I myself would rather be in the safe zone once my kit goes on this coming spring. If the difference in HP is less than ten ponies, I can live without those extra 10 ponies bumping me into the next bracket for bragging rights...[poke][8]
 

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I run at 7000+ a bit, especially at the track, but my car is parked for the winter. I have the JRSC BBK, and i'm gonna send my pcm in to get the base reflash, what AF does that run at at WOT?? i know its fairly rich, but its safe, can i get a few more ponies by leaning it out to 10.5 or so?
 

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How is it I am not looking out for the Focus community , I post up as much if not more info about the Focus as anyone and have done more testing the the next 2 Focus shops combined , I have been in the mid 10`s now for about a year and a half ,Not sure what the comment about "everything he has been thur with his customers"


Sorry I dont blow engines just to find out what is going to happen , I know what is safe and what is not safe , what I want to find out with testing is how far can I push it to the safe side with out a loss of power , where other tuners try to push it to how much HP can I make with out it blowing up

Misinformation is misinformation does not matter if it is here or other places , Here I can change the misinsormation and correct it where the mistake and blown engines wont happen here unlike the other place where a "tuner" had the chance to help and said a lot about nothing

Tom
Tell your customer what you want. I'm not going to smell your a$$ call it what you want (I don't blow engines) (I don't let misinformation get out)
people stand n line just to hear you say I'm all about the information but your about the $$$ so let it be real. Your over at FOCALJET and bring stuff from there site and the thread to bring life back your rep. [confused] If it's on focaljet let it stay there and stop being a troll. let it go you got kicked the island for trying to testing the limits of the admins over there. It's like all the customer you have had a problem with are over there (focaljet) and the ones that are in love with you are here (focusfanatics). hahaha this is all off topic and I'm sorry.

Start a new thread and let make it a stick but let's not quote what's going on at other sites. I'm sure some of the admins feel the same way.
 
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