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K&N Performance Intakes needs your PZEV 03-04 Ford Focus for intake kit testing and development. Car will be needed for 5 working days. A rental car can be made available for the interim. When the kit is complete you will receive one for your time, installed. Interested candidates, please e-mail me directly at [email protected].
 

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Neat deal. Thanks for showing interest in the PZEV. You Cali guys get all the breaks.
 

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then k&n should probably rent one or buy one then?? dont mean to sound mean but come on arent they a pretty rich company? i know i bought one of their filters once for my bronco and then found out later it needed a special oil to clean it with for big bucks. a million mile warranty yeh, with maintenance over and above any paper filter. try enterprise i hear they have some deals.
 

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teddyrob said:
then k&n should probably rent one or buy one then?? dont mean to sound mean but come on arent they a pretty rich company? i know i bought one of their filters once for my bronco and then found out later it needed a special oil to clean it with for big bucks. a million mile warranty yeh, with maintenance over and above any paper filter. try enterprise i hear they have some deals.
I bet K&N does this routinely - soliciting a group of enthusiasts for their car to be the guinea pig. Some lucky K&N aficionado gets the bragging rights that his car was The One used for development, and he gets the first copy of the system they designed. Pretty cool, if you're a K&N aficionado. And for them, no need to shell out any bucks for a rental, much less a purchase (!! come on, do you know how many filters they design in a year... they'd be shelling out $millions if they actually BOUGHT all the development cars)

The filtration mechanism of the K&N requires the special oil - in fact it is the very heart of the matter. It is the oil that gets loaded with filtered particles, and needs to be periodically cleaned and reoiled. Get over it - it's exactly what K&N is all about, and, for the insatiable tinkerers out there it gives them something they can actually do to their car out there in the garage. You should have known all this before you bought the K&N for your Bronco; you're just whining now.

Personally, I tend to run paper (stock OEM, or quality OER such as Napa Gold) filters although I am undecided about this unservicable monstrosity on the PZEV. I might just go with a CAI yet. What it boils down to is that the flow loss across ANY filter, be it paper, foam, or oiled fabric, is incredibly small. And paper filters are well-proven to be superior in capturing and holding particles.
 

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teddyrob,

As soffiler said.. you don't clean the filter with oil... you apply it after you clean it. The oil is not expensive, and for me, it sure as heck beats replacing a paper filter after a trip down a few dirt roads.
 

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soffiler i wasnt whining. i bought the k&n filter based on how they said it was a million mile filter. now come on, do you think in their advertising they said its a million mile filter ONLY as long as you use our special oils to bathe it in? i honestly didnt know the filter was so maintenance specific, it was not pointed out to me or else i wouldnt have bought it. i am not whining at all, i just wont buy another gimmick filter and with the pzev i guess i wont have to huh?
 

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So what were the circumstances where you purchased something without knowing what you were buying? It's no gimmick, it works better and lasts longer, and requires LESS effort to maintain than walking into a store and buying a new filter... you simply hose it off, then spray oil on it...

I guess you see some downside to it that we don't.
 

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I think teddy's dissatisfaction with the K&N filter is directly related to his lack of knowledge of how it works. Teddy, it is a million mile filter because you dont have to shit can it every 15k miles like a paper filter. Instead you wash it and re-oil it every 25k or so. You only have to shit can it after a million miles (give or take). It's kind of like the difference between disposible diapers and cloth diapers. Most people dont use cloth diapers anymore because there is more work involved. But, in the end, you save $$ even though you have to launder them. And the babies bottoms stay softer!
 

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K&N is the filter I have on my Marcy intake. I like the idea that it is a reusable filter personally.
 

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Jesus. I don't see any reason for all the Teddy-bashing. He brings a valid point as to K&N's advertising policies. A prompt and emotionless explaination may have been a bit better in this situation. But, if we wanted dry, zombie-like commentary, we'd probably just read the newspaper and stay away from internet forums all together.

All you veterans out there, try to remember that some of us are here because our curiousity outweighs our knowledge.

I, personally, see Teddy's point but don't share his view on it. Especially since it's such an accessible part. Does K&N need to put an asterisk - indicating a catch - next to the 'million-mile' claim? No. But, they do. To some people those little star thingies are just there for looks.

Anyway, as I am one myself, I'd like to see a little less ameture-bashing. Or else!


...right...


I wish I was Paris Hilton.
 

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I think everyone disagreeing with him took about the same tone he took with the K&N rep, which to me, is just fine, not bashing anyone, just convorsating on his level.
 

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uh... to each his own. R-E-S-P-E-C-T: DAH! FIND OUT WHAT IT MEANS TO ME: DAH! sockittomesockittomesockittomesockittome... anyway. Anything think this is legit? I kinda want to know why they can't just buy their own. And... if I do choose to do this little thingy... I'm guessing that any damage to my focus is on me, not them. I'll email him and let you know the details.
 

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focusonthefocus said:
... Anything think this is legit? I kinda want to know why they can't just buy their own. And... if I do choose to do this little thingy... I'm guessing that any damage to my focus is on me, not them. I'll email him and let you know the details.
I guess you mean "anyONE think this is legit?" and I, for one, say absolutely yes. If I was in K&N's position, I would do exactly the same thing. Just go out looking to borrow a car. Given K&N's popularity and reputation, somebody is going to be willing, I guarantee you. Therefore, why in the everfreakin' world would they even THINK of buying a car when they know there's somebody out there that's going to loan them one for free?

If you are thinking about taking them up on the offer, get a copy of the contract ahead of time. There should certainly be a clause in there about responsibilty for any damage that is caused - and it sure as hell had better be K&N's responsibility.
 

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focusonthefocus said:
Anything think this is legit? I kinda want to know why they can't just buy their own.
It is a standard practice among aftermarket companies. If every aftermarket supplier had to go out and buy a car for development purposes, to include every variation of powertrain, bodystyle, etc., do you realize just how much they'd have to charge the consumer for their product? By doing it this way, someone that doesn't mind being without their car for a short period of time allows them to develop their product for the whole community. In return, that person gets the product being developed by them. Now, this is just an intake, but imagine if it was to develop a complete bodykit or suspension system. Would you consider it to be worth it then?
Just my 2 cents.
Jay
 

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I'm on my way tomorrow for the 400+ mile drive to Riverside. How many free miles come with the rental?[driving] [screwy]
 

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Freakin naggin! WHy pay 13 grand for a new Focus when all you need is for someone to offer theirs? And they can't rent one and modify it because of the rental company finds out K&N is in deep shit once something happens down the road to the car. Point is if you live in Cali take your happy ass to K&N and hand over your car. ****in A I'd be glad to give mines up as long as they didn't ruin anything in the engine. This is something lots of companies do. Hell Focus Central tests their product on their own employees Foci!
 

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soffiler said:
And paper filters are well-proven to be superior in capturing and holding particles.
Can you show me the information, test or study that proves that a paper filter is superior in capturing and holding particles compared to an oil based oil filter?

I agree that a pager filter might catch more particles since it's restrictive and gets clogged quickly but I don't buy that they are superior to oil based filter unless you can show me some facts.
 

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microtonal said:
Can you show me the information, test or study that proves that a paper filter is superior in capturing and holding particles compared to an oil based oil filter?

I agree that a pager filter might catch more particles since it's restrictive and gets clogged quickly but I don't buy that they are superior to oil based filter unless you can show me some facts.
Sure, it's all over the net. Try a Google search on ["air filter" foam paper "K&N"] or any other keywords to that effect.

Here is one, very unbiased, reasonably scientific:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

The writeup is pretty long, so if you can't stand it, just skip down to the bottom of the page and check out the pictures. He used a second filter behind the test filter to catch whatever particles the test filter did not catch. The foam and the fabric filters are much darker than the paper filters, indicating a lot more got past.

No one seems to dispute that paper filters are great at capturing and holding particles. The fans of foam or fabric will say this is a negative, as the available porosity in the paper filter loads up and creates flow restriction. Certainly some truth in that.
 

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Couple words of caution against K&N for the PZEV

For PZEV enthusiasts,

This doesn't address the K&N rep borrowing your cars, but for all of you considering aftermarket filters for the PZEV, two important things to consider.

1) The PZEV filter is designed to be a lifetime component. While the aftermarket filters may offer a restriction advantage, you should consider that you'll be replacing a non-serviceable component with one that requires either maintenance or replacement.

2) Even more important, the California PZEV emissions mandate includes strict requirements for both tailpipe AND evaporative emissions. The evaporative emissions component makes the air intake system an emissions component according to CARB and Federal standards. The warranty on any of the other emissions related components could be voided, and of course if the vehicles were ever audited for emissions, they would certainly fail both tailpipe and evaporative.

Neither of these will probably matter to the die-hard performance guys, but for you tweeners, maybe you should think twice.

Since I don't live in California, I was wondering - does the government do anything to enforce that cars are maintained well enough to meet emissions levels, or that they aren't tinkered with? Does the DMV they force annual audits or certifications of some kind?
 
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