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Discussion Starter #21
Yeah it fits no problem. I'm just worried that an oem disk wouldn't hold over 200whp well enough.
Plus I can't find a full face, 8 puck disc for sale by itself.
I found plent of 4 and 6 puck disks online, but the only others available seem to be oem and "stg 1" disks.
Will a stock type disc not fit your aftermarket pressure plate?

Paul
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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
So, UPDATE AGAIN. Still no clutch!!

I have officially swapped 2 new slaves a new MC, I just replaced the disc that had sheared the pads off and I replaced the pressure plate too.
Everything has been replaced at least once now.
The pressure line is not swelling or leaking when clutch is pressed.

There are zero leaks anywhere.

I easily get all of the bubbles out in minutes and have a firm pedal, same as before.

Still no clutch.

Only thing I haven't replaced is the line (which feels good the wbole run and doesn't leak), and the flywheel.

I did have it turned, but, where I take all my focus FWs, they always do a perfect job and check the specs afterward to make sure all is well.

I am at the point of blaming it though.

I am sick of pulling this trans and putting it back in only to be laughed at.

My SVT and daily ZX3 bleed in 5 minutes or less and work perfect everytime.

I have had the trans on this turd in and out 3 times now with the same result.

Great pedal, no clutch.

No one has ever had this ridiculous problem?

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Discussion Starter #23
Update again:
Pulled transmission again.
Everything looks perfect.
Flywheel isn't mounted crooked.
Bolts are all tight.
I swapped the clutch line before pulling the trans and it rebled no problem but still no disengagement.

Again, I can hear the slave start moving at the very top of the pedal, and I hear it travel back and forth very well, but, the dang clutch will not release.

I rotated the engine and kept checking the distance from the FW to a part of the block to see of maybe I had bent the crank's FW flange, but it seems straight.

I guess I could put it all back together AGAIN for the 4th time and try a 3rd master cylinder.
I'm going to change brands of slave cylinder since I'm back in here as well, incase this design just doesn't have quite perfect specs.

I guess I'll be buying a new FW too, since it's the only thing that isn't brand new.

No one has ever had this problem?
Help. Somebody.
Lolz.
This thing has been ready to drive for 8 months!

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I remember this Ford ranger from probably 9 years ago. They pulled the transmission multiple times. It wound up being the wrong slave cylinder / release bearing it was never reaching to press on the pressure plate.

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My bad.......................just making it worse and no need for that.

We did have a similar issue at first on the twin disc clutches we used to drag race, we had to throw out all ideas of what the working distances were there to come up with new for that specific setup. It changed from car to car too.

You have to put the working space of the PP in the same place as the working space of the TOB. We also found that if you stroked the PP slightly too deep then the clutch began to lock again, the amount of TOB movement there was pretty critical. A lot of measuring to get it right, we set up the PP release numbers on a drillpress to be able to tell exactly when the discs released.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I remember this Ford ranger from probably 9 years ago. They pulled the transmission multiple times. It wound up being the wrong slave cylinder / release bearing it was never reaching to press on the pressure plate.

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I am going to switch to a totally different brand just incase that is my issue, and, I bought a new OEM FW incase mine is ground down too thin, though, the machine shop said it was in spec.

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Discussion Starter #27
Yoooo....
The only thing I haven't swapped is the FW, and, I'm wondering if the resurface took it just out of usable spec. Or...
The machinist also knows me as "the SVT focus guy" (guess I'm the only one that comes there) and I wonder if his guys ground it to specs for an SVT.
My bad.......................just making it worse and no need for that.

We did have a similar issue at first on the twin disc clutches we used to drag race, we had to throw out all ideas of what the working distances were there to come up with new for that specific setup. It changed from car to car too.

You have to put the working space of the PP in the same place as the working space of the TOB. We also found that if you stroked the PP slightly too deep then the clutch began to lock again, the amount of TOB movement there was pretty critical. A lot of measuring to get it right, we set up the PP release numbers on a drillpress to be able to tell exactly when the discs released.
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Entirely possible, flywheel too far away will definitely affect that.

When parts start getting changed up if the setup still works well fine, but if it doesn't you have to throw all people telling you 'it's right' out the window to find out for yourself what is actually workable there. The stack up of distances there often throws things off.

It's right ain't sh-t if it's not working.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Swapped in a brand new OEM flywheel.
Same exact good pedal, but no freaking clutch.

Now it is official, every single part is new, including the clutch line, and it still won't let go of the engine.

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Yeah it fits no problem. I'm just worried that an oem disk wouldn't hold over 200whp well enough.
Plus I can't find a full face, 8 puck disc for sale by itself.
I found plent of 4 and 6 puck disks online, but the only others available seem to be oem and "stg 1" disks.

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I looked thru your thread, So what Flywheel, PP, disc & throwout are you using?
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Hello Felix,
When the engine blew, the clutch was fine.
So initially, when I got everything back together, I reused the working FW and FX350.
Had anice pedal, but no disengagement.

Tried to drive it and force the issue, didn't work and found my friction pads ripped ofof the disc when I took it back apart.

Now
I'm on a 2nd OEM FW (brand new)

2nd slave cylinder (same brand from Oriellys both times though)

2nd Master Cylinder

New Clutch Xperts 330lb PP and stage 5 friction disc.

I get the same good pedal pressure as the first setup, still no engagement.

Gonna try a 3rd MC from a different company I guess, since I have no idea what to try next.

I can't believe this car.

I've never had any of these problems doing clutches on my other zx3s.
I looked thru your thread, So what Flywheel, PP, disc & throwout are you using?
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Oh wow, I kept thinking you had a svt...I'd be looking at the PP & disc, do they work w/ a oem flywheel or their specific flywheel?
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I have an svt too, but with a regular zetec engine mated to the 6speed.
My boosted zx3 is my issue though.

I had the same good pedal pressure with lots of slave cylinder movement through the entire pedal range with the other PP too. And it was the one that was working fine when I had to pull the motor.

The PPs are just OEM design with a hardened spring.

I can faintly hear the slave moving from the very top of the pedal onwards, so, it definitely moves.

So, same good pedal pressure as before, only still dosen't
disengage.
Oh wow, I kept thinking you had a svt...I'd be looking at the PP & disc, do they work w/ a oem flywheel or their specific flywheel?
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If the crank thrust main bearing is worn enough could be that too. That usually damages the crank sensor first.

The problem I mentioned earlier about clutch drag to not release..............we found back in those days that a lot of diaphragm type PPs can be pushed in TOO far and they then begin to grab the disc again when they go way overcenter.

Need to clarify, you say disengagement and engagement in the same post (#31) and won't do either.

330 lb. PP? We used to use 2600-3900 lb. PP. Shows how things change. That 330 may only be the basic spring rate not multiplied by the cubic inch of clutch area.
 

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Discussion Starter #35 (Edited)
Hey man.
Yes, the 330lb number I put I was referring to what crank torque it's rated for is all.
It is still an oem PP but with temered springs to raise the rating. (Says the rep anyway)

But, I already had a PP that was working fine when the engine blew, and when I tried it again, I got the same decent pedal pressure, could hear the slave moving with pedal action, but no release, exactly the same as the all the new clutch components act now.
All new everything, and no change.

I wondered about thrust, but, mine has practically no thrust play and has brand new bearings.

I did read where some folks (on other car forums) complained of too much travel.
Most of them reported being able to find a spot in the pedal travel where the clutch would release, but, mine won't release at any position. Womp womp.

I didn't use the .002" debris divider plates that live between the engine and trans, but, I'm pretty sure it didn't have them when everything was together and working before the engine popped.

I may try to source them on ebay and fit them in.
I don't expect that ~.002" - .004" separation to matter, but... eh.

After that if no joy I may swap a different brand MC into it and see if it was just 2 bad ones in a row.

Don't really know what else to do at this point.

Thanks for throwing more ideas my way, sir!

If the crank thrust main bearing is worn enough could be that too. That usually damages the crank sensor first.

The problem I mentioned earlier about clutch drag to not release..............we found back in those days that a lot of diaphragm type PPs can be pushed in TOO far and they then begin to grab the disc again when they go way overcenter.

Need to clarify, you say disengagement and engagement in the same post (#31) and won't do either.

330 lb. PP? We used to use 2600-3900 lb. PP. Shows how things change. That 330 may only be the basic spring rate not multiplied by the cubic inch of clutch area.
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Discussion Starter #36 (Edited)
You think it could be because of my SVT crank I put in it now?
It was a regular zetec in this car before the engine rebuild.
I've always thought the Svt and Zetec cranks have identical dimension specs, even if the SVT one is hardened, so, I figured the snouts would have the same thickness/ dimensions.
I wonder if they are actually different.

I could swear I've read of guys swapping in SVT blocks with no other physical change and they didn't report a problem that I can remember.
If the crank thrust main bearing is worn enough could be that too. That usually damages the crank sensor first.

The problem I mentioned earlier about clutch drag to not release..............we found back in those days that a lot of diaphragm type PPs can be pushed in TOO far and they then begin to grab the disc again when they go way overcenter.

Need to clarify, you say disengagement and engagement in the same post (#31) and won't do either.

330 lb. PP? We used to use 2600-3900 lb. PP. Shows how things change. That 330 may only be the basic spring rate not multiplied by the cubic inch of clutch area.
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If you are moving the TOB with no contact you hear it but when it hits solid you may not be actually moving it then to activate the PP. Meaning only enough pressure to move TOB with nothing against it = air in lines. You say you seem to feel the TOB pushing down on the PP though. Maybe moving PP slightly?

.002" divider plate = tinfoil, I expect you mean at least .020" there and maybe more, most are over that. That gone would be MORE engagement of the TOB.

There is no magic there, if you cannot find the issue you MUST measure for operating distance to weed out the variable.

Assuming trans is not broken in some way.

Tom has said the cranks are the same.
 

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Went researching and ran into so much Focus zetec clutch doubletalk I would be pulling trans to measure myself. One more reason to loathe hydro TOBs. I'll take manual all day long.
 

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Discussion Starter #40 (Edited)
I pulled my endoscope out today and watched the slave while I pushed the clutch pedal.
It appears to be doing its full travel.
Of course, it could be coming up short of what's needed, but it travels a proper looking amount.
It's definitely pushing the springs in.
I am tempted to buy a different brand/ style slave and MC in hopes that one of these in the car now is faulty/ not good enough design from NIB.
Went researching and ran into so much Focus zetec clutch doubletalk I would be pulling trans to measure myself. One more reason to loathe hydro TOBs. I'll take manual all day long.
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