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w/ my magic bag
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Discussion Starter #3
Wouldn't make a difference for owner/drivers going in & out of the ports on the west coast as the trucks would be to old & yea the gliders do get checked out...
This is not only for commercial trucks (been in place for decades in CA), but pickup trucks with diesel engines. It's now in the works to come out the same for cars regardless of age or fuel type.
 

w/ my magic bag
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This is not only for commercial trucks (been in place for decades in CA), but pickup trucks with diesel engines. It's now in the works to come out the same for cars regardless of age or fuel type.
I've heard & read that for years, really depends on where your at. The newer trucks such as my bother's T880 has more power/grunt & gets better fuel mileage then his older T800's & Volvo's...Have a look at the new 'strokes. Lot of newer vehicles make great power & better mileage w/o doing any mods......The thing is ppl need to figure out what the end result they're looking for or want....If you looking for more performance to begin with, Why not start w/ a performance trim level? To add you'd also get suspension/brake/interior/ect upgrades that come w/ it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I've heard & read that for years, really depends on where your at. The newer trucks such as my bother's T880 has more power/grunt & gets better fuel mileage then his older T800's & Volvo's...Have a look at the new 'strokes. Lot of newer vehicles make great power & better mileage w/o doing any mods......The thing is ppl need to figure out what the end result they're looking for or want....If you looking for more performance to begin with, Why not start w/ a performance trim level? To add you'd also get suspension/brake/interior/ect upgrades that come w/ it.
I really don't think you read the link. The EPA is going to outlaw any altering of the ECU, like Tom's tune. Right now it's just diesel but ALL vehicles are going to be included in the very near future.
 

w/ my magic bag
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I really don't think you read the link. The EPA is going to outlaw any altering of the ECU, like Tom's tune. Right now it's just diesel but ALL vehicles are going to be included in the very near future.
Kinda tuff to figure out if a gas vehicle has tune as least the way the emission places do....Its not like they have a ids or similar & know what to look for....I've heard & read about that before for yrs...Kinda funny some states don't want you to make your vehicle more efficient......
 

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Discussion Starter #7
...Kinda funny some states don't want you to make your vehicle more efficient......
This is from the government and nobody really believes GOVERNMENT has to make sense or know what it's doing. EPA supersedes all states and so far exactly zero states have argued against any of it.
 

w/ my magic bag
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This is from the government and nobody really believes GOVERNMENT has to make sense or know what it's doing. EPA supersedes all states and so far exactly zero states have argued against any of it.
So how is the EPA going to test all the gas powered vehicles? Its not like they can plug in to the obd2 port & say your vehicle has been reprogrammed....Diesels are different as I can figure that out myself, as I used to have a couple 'stroke powered trucks that were modit.
 

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It has pretty much been against the law to mess with software for years, the only thing changing would be a dedication to checking for it. Federal law prevents changing ANYTHING if you read the fine print. A $10.000 fine since the late '70s to do it.

The only way they can catch it is with more time consuming detailed software searches like some of the places in DFW here are beginning to do. A simple quick search catches nothing but if they go deeper and the inspector checks for physical equipment against a list of what comes on the cars year by year they can catch reworks but most inspectors do not go that deep doing inspections. Here in Texas an inspector can fail a car even if he simply feels something is wrong, he has a clause that allows for feeling something is not right and it is then a refusal to inspect issue.

At some point people who alter software will be in trouble but considering the way our president looks at the EPA that has gotten further away not closer.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It has pretty much been against the law to mess with software for years, the only thing changing would be a dedication to checking for it. Federal law prevents changing ANYTHING if you read the fine print. A $10.000 fine since the late '70s to do it.

The only way they can catch it is with more time consuming detailed software searches like some of the places in DFW here are beginning to do. A simple quick search catches nothing but if they go deeper and the inspector checks for physical equipment against a list of what comes on the cars year by year they can catch reworks but most inspectors do not go that deep doing inspections. Here in Texas an inspector can fail a car even if he simply feels something is wrong, he has a clause that allows for feeling something is not right and it is then a refusal to inspect issue.

At some point people who alter software will be in trouble but considering the way our president looks at the EPA that has gotten further away not closer.
I was stationed in TX so I understand what you're saying. Several other states have inspections as well but some vary more than others. NJ was more concerned with mechanical things when I was there. What the EPA is going to do is COMPLETELY OUTLAW the sales or transfer of any tuning hardware & software (Tom's tune and any device used to install it). The company in that landmark case was fined $1.1 million - even if it's used for off-road purposes. For this, the EPA is autonomous. No president can stop them.
 

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About a year ago several OEMs semi-ganged up together to put a court case in front of the copyright bureau court about the same thing, Kat or Deere was one of the lead plaintiffs. The issue was one of people changing the software and then the vehicles coming back with complaints and the OEMs having to figure out what software got changed to deny warranty. They filed claiming that even messing with software was a breach of copyright rights, that people literally were violating copyright by even reading dtcs on their own. A big too-doo in the news about it then suddenly, nothing. I never heard how that case panned out in court.
 

So mote be it
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About a year ago several OEMs semi-ganged up together to put a court case in front of the copyright bureau court about the same thing, Kat or Deere was one of the lead plaintiffs. The issue was one of people changing the software and then the vehicles coming back with complaints and the OEMs having to figure out what software got changed to deny warranty. They filed claiming that even messing with software was a breach of copyright rights, that people literally were violating copyright by even reading dtcs on their own. A big too-doo in the news about it then suddenly, nothing. I never heard how that case panned out in court.
the problem was they locked down their software so you could only go back to them for any service. So farmers had to wait on a certified tech. Me personally, i would hate having to go to only Ford to get work done.
Vice did a piece on it a couple years ago:
A license agreement John Deere required farmers to sign in October forbids nearly all repair and modification to farming equipment, and prevents farmers from suing for "crop loss, lost profits, loss of goodwill, loss of use of equipment 鈥 arising from the performance or non-performance of any aspect of the software." The agreement applies to anyone who turns the key or otherwise uses a John Deere tractor with embedded software. It means that only John Deere dealerships and "authorized" repair shops can work on newer tractors.
it applies to all of us though with the Right to Repair, i want to be able to work on my own car. I cant imagine having to go to ford for everything.
 

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I'm surprised they didn't come after PDI before now, they came after the other BIG MFG of Semi performance parts the defeated or worked around EPA regs (Pittsburgh Power). EPA also went after Edge Products (does pickup Diesel related) in recent years and a number of others....
 
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