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Discussion Starter #1
i want headers for my birthday!

what do you guys think
http://www.patriot-performance.com/

stage 2 i nevar heard of this company what do you think its pretty cheap but you get what you pay for???
ok next question anyone ACTUALLY have a head in there car what company and what are your experiences with it?
what should i go i know crowler cams have been around for a while. what is a good combo im looking to spend 2 g-notes
last year i bought rims for my car this year thats my birthday present to mayself and i gotta get on the ball with the reaserch. my birthday is may 21 ill be 21 and i would like something nice for my car.
is a intake manifold a good idea after this point? focus-central has a intake mani for just less than 7 bills.
is a focus-central head good i would really like to buy that if it is good cause i love focus-central product but i also want whats best for my car. im not so sure i wanna tap into the patriot head cause ive nevar heard of them??? help me out people
thanks FOCUS MIKE! : P
 

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i wouldnt bother with a no namer on a head. their base head work doesnt really have anything done to it thats special. and their more expensive head has things you wont really need like springs and retainers, and if the valves are the same size as stock its a waste there too...

you can get a fr head close to that price at www.mcnewsautomotive.com call em up and they can even help u out with some custom work.

peeps with experience with the head, try and get a hold of bmonninger he had some head work and saw some good numbers out of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
is the focus-central head ok though if i were to go that route or would you strickty say fr head??? also i need cams with the fr head too. anyone else got some input thanks euro. i thought that patriot shit was garbage it might not be but a motor (my motor) is precious to me as it prolly is to you. also is the fr head assembeled?? anyone got any werd bout the fc head?
 

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well if you wanna go there the FS and FC heads are spitters.......most of them cost more and dont have the upgraded valvetrain as good a price or not at all
 

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FS also mills the head to raise the compression up to a 10.8:1. And you can choose between a 3 angle valve job or a 5 angle valve job. But the FR head is a hell lot cheaper.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
ok people you are doing good. someone look at my PROFILE tell me what should i do? should i be like the all motor zetec d00d here and go all n/a. turbos are too expensive right now im saving up for a house and turbos not werking ive put 1k a month easily in the back and thats with all my bills and my girlfriend bill and girlfriend are money vultures lol. i love them except the bills part. anyways this is about me not them. do i need a ugraded valve train. whats up people guide me in the light! lol i need your knowlege and guidence and there will be a much faster focus and stronger one on the streets of the chi. i already beat up most of them.
 

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ALL_MOTOR_ZETEC said:
FS also mills the head to raise the compression up to a 10.8:1. And you can choose between a 3 angle valve job or a 5 angle valve job. But the FR head is a hell lot cheaper.
Ummm the FR head comes with a 3 angle valve job and it has oversize ss valves, which the FS doesn't, and it costs less. Btw milling is only about $ 50.00
 

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Discussion Starter #12
what is the difference between 3 angle and 5 angle? what is milling? im such a newb when it comes to head! lol
 

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milling or decked or shaved is metal actually being removed from the base of the head. 3 and 5 is 5 is better than 3 for better air flow when the valve is open
 

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Discussion Starter #14
so okay fr i can upgrade to 5 right? i want all the possible good upgrades for my car cause once im done with this im done for good. then i go back to the body werk. how much hp will i get outta this? is 30hp @wheels about right?
 

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focaltech said:
Ummm the FR head comes with a 3 angle valve job and it has oversize ss valves, which the FS doesn't, and it costs less. Btw milling is only about $ 50.00
Yes I know this Focal, I just didn't add it but should off. Point is, an FS head runs around $1,000 and a FR head runs around $800.00
 

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yeah milling isnt a whole lotta cash

would u guys say oversized valves benefit more than 5 angle valve job?

dont think u can upgrade from 3-5 with the fr head.
 

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You may be able to get a 5 angle job on the FR head though I am not sure of its worth.

HERE IS SOME INFO FOR Y'ALL:

I can explain in lamens terms but here is some real info for ya.

1-angle
> valvejobs are almost always performed by factories and shops that do
> 'stock rebuilds'. This involves not touching the bowls or chambers, but
> just making a single angle cut (usually right around 45 degrees) for
> both the valve and the seat. Since most production bowls come into the
> chamber at nearly 90 degrees, there are basically 2 45 degree sharp
> corners the air must turn just on the head side. The same goes for the
> valve, though the back of the valve is rarely 90 degrees to the edge.
> This kills airflow at ALL valve lifts. The solution is to cut these two
> edges on the cylinder head with two more angles that approximately halve
> the angle between the valve seat and the surrounding material. Hence
> the 3 angle valve job.
>
> For better shops, the 3 angle valve job doesn't end there, since there
> are also sharp turns on the valve itself. Most of the high end shops
> put little cuts to 'break' the edges on the valve that as a casual
> observer you would probably not even notice if you were to look at it.
> They still refer to this as part of their 3 angle valvejob, but some
> shops like to capitalize on jargon and will call this a 5-angle job
> since they made 5 cuts (they usually only make one cut on the back of
> the valve and don't mess much on the side since it can narrow the margin
> too much if they don't have custom valves made for the application).
>
> The problem comes when someone that actually DOES a 5 angle valve job
> and these other guys are really doing what is a 3 angle job and calling
> it a 5-angle. A true 5-angle would be to make 5 distinct cuts on the
> cylinder head which in the scope of the size of the cuts, makes the turn
> very close to a true radius rather than 4 very small turns. I
> personally don't port heads or do valvejobs, but get the opportunity to
> know some very good people that like to talk shop. It's nice to see
> what really good work is and have it explained by the professional that
> did it rather than some advertising hype. If you are wowed by the
> opportunity to have another couple angles on your heads because "more
> must be better" remember that there is such a thing as diminishing
> returns. All but the very fastest competition engines make
> a lot of power with *good* 3 angle valvejobs and nobody that will talk
> to me knows what the secret engines have.
>
> On a good head job (yeah, I know it's a very bad Freudian slip), the
> machined surfaces farthest away from the valve seat will typically be
> blended with a radius into the surrounding surfaces (bowl and chamber).
> Some people use the 5-angle job in place of this and don't finish the
> valvejob with any hand blending. When all is said and done, it seems to
> be a wash and subject to personal opinion of the porter what the head
> gets.
>
> The valve job is one of the most important parts of good port flow and
> is often overlooked as such. Porters that are serious and good at it do
> a lot of development in this area alone. There are a lot of
> variables with respect to the actual angles and widths of the cuts.
> Some people know what they are doing and understand the implications of
> the decisions and others just have a 'standard' valvejob. Pick their
> brain a little before investing your hard earned dollars. I am a big
> believer in good low lift flow and the shape of a flow curve more than a
> peak flow number that everyone likes to quote. The valvejob will either
> make or break the low lift flow.
 

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preach on brotha! makes since to me, im still looking to the FR head, good 3 angle and larger valves
 
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