Focus Fanatics Forum banner

1 - 20 of 93 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
also, is this an inevitable service like replacing a clutch on a manual transmission vehicle or is the clutch supposed to last the life of the vehicle? thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
248 Posts
Depends how you look at it. A good quality clutch on a properly driven manual can easily last 150k mi plus. With the amount of problems there are with the dct clutches, it's anyone's guess really. You also have no control how they operate either. You are pretty much at the mercy of the control module, with some luck of the draw if your clutch pack is good and stays good, and that the actuators and such stay working properly. I'd def plan on having to change it at some point if you keep the car for awhile. I think I've seen about $800 thrown around for the clutchpack, just parts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,517 Posts
Are you out of the warranty?
I never heard of nobody replacing the DCT.
New Q's: is it any way to mount a 5 speed manual transmission instead?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
i'm just asking. my DCT and clutch works fine after 18k miles and I have plenty of warranty left..

most automatic transmissions never need anything but occasional service and last the lifetime of the vehicle.

since the DCT is a different beast i'm wondering if in normal circumstances will the clutch need to be replaced. my friend has replaced the clutch twice in her RAV4 but she really has no business driving a stick because she doesn't know how to shift. if she were driving a normal automatic she wouldn't have to replace anything.

I just want to know if a clutch replacement for DCT is normal and the cost for reference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Depends how you look at it. A good quality clutch on a properly driven manual can easily last 150k mi plus. With the amount of problems there are with the dct clutches, it's anyone's guess really. You also have no control how they operate either. You are pretty much at the mercy of the control module, with some luck of the draw if your clutch pack is good and stays good, and that the actuators and such stay working properly. I'd def plan on having to change it at some point if you keep the car for awhile. I think I've seen about $800 thrown around for the clutchpack, just parts.
thanks. that's what I am thinking and why I asked. I usually keep a new vehicle for more than 100k miles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,475 Posts
I would think the lifspan of dual clutches should exceed 250,000 miles of use.
This is totally my own 'guesstimate' but having driven a manual all my life.. and knowing clutches, and how they get abused..
Single clutches last an average of 120,000 to 150,000 miles and then are worn. (The big wear item is standing start, uphill, and racing. most of those issues should not be harming a dual clutch device nearly as much as a regular manual clutch.)
So the dual clutch is used alternately. So double the miles..
250,000 easy.
natually if they fail due to manufacturing flaws.. that is a different story.
If they develope a habit of failing.. I think Ford will be forced to extend the warranty.
The powertrain warranty is 5 years ,60,000 miles..
BUT there are other safeguards in a warranty especially if the parts are failing due to manufacturing problems.. And the tranny on ht Focus has plenty of paid for repairs.. So any issues dow nthe road with the clutches should have a solid basis for a challenge if stuff goes wrong.
 

·
Focus Addict
Joined
·
14,132 Posts
I would think the lifspan of dual clutches should exceed 250,000 miles of use.
This is totally my own 'guesstimate' but having driven a manual all my life.. and knowing clutches, and how they get abused..
Single clutches last an average of 120,000 to 150,000 miles and then are worn. (The big wear item is standing start, uphill, and racing. most of those issues should not be harming a dual clutch device nearly as much as a regular manual clutch.)
So the dual clutch is used alternately. So double the miles..
250,000 easy.
natually if they fail due to manufacturing flaws.. that is a different story.
If they develope a habit of failing.. I think Ford will be forced to extend the warranty.
The powertrain warranty is 5 years ,60,000 miles..
BUT there are other safeguards in a warranty especially if the parts are failing due to manufacturing problems.. And the tranny on ht Focus has plenty of paid for repairs.. So any issues dow nthe road with the clutches should have a solid basis for a challenge if stuff goes wrong.
The published lifetime is approximately 10 years/ 150,000 miles, however some people have had trouble much earlier than this so far, however there are a few MK3 DCTs with over 100,000 miles on them.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,458 Posts
Published figures for lifetimes are a tricky thing. HD makers used to publish lifetimes of 300,000 hours or 34 years but I have had HD's fail in less than 1000 hrs and of the nearly 30 HD's I've had over the years I've had about 10 of them fail well before the 300,000 hours.

My Canon 1DsMarkII camera was rated at 200,000 shutter actuation's but failed at about 20,000.

I think most of the early failures on the DCT clutches has been due to manufacturing and/or assembly issues with leaks being probably the top reason. It is likely, however, that the actual clutches used are smaller and less durable than a typical manual tranny clutch with the design idea being the computer would be less taxing on them so they could be made lighter.


Brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
"The published lifetime is approximately 10 years/ 150,000 miles" so what happens at that, you have to pay for a new transmission? being a mechanic, something about never having to change the oil kinda bothers me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
"The published lifetime is approximately 10 years/ 150,000 miles" so what happens at that, you have to pay for a new transmission? being a mechanic, something about never having to change the oil kinda bothers me.
Presumably that is when you change the clutches and gear oil. Since it is a manual trans, in theory it should not be as sensitive to extended oil change intervals like a torque converter auto.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
520 Posts
Most (but not all) of the folks complaining about the DCT are really complaining about how they don't like it. There are plenty of folks here who complain about the DCT but are still racking up impressive miles on them. Someone the other day posted a complaint but inadvertently admitted that he or she already had 98,000 miles on the DCT. I was like really? Where is the failure?

Even those who complain about the grinding noise still drive the car on the regular. Now I am not saying that grinding noise is good or normal, but considering that those cars ARE making grinding noises and yet still drives says something.

The Focus MK3 has been out now for two years and is currently on its third model year. To date, there are NO MASS TRANNY FAILS. What is happening is that there are several documented lemons out there but considering the amount reported compared to the total amount of MK3 sold it is quite small. Not to discount the problems reported but if your DCT is running fine, why would you be inquiring about replacing the tranny? As has been said before the ones who are not happy with their cars are the loudest on the "internets". That does not mean that there is an impending wave of tranny failures coming.

Furthermore, there is a rumor about a new improved DCT on the newer model Focus but no one yet has been able to definitively PROVE this to be the case. Also, some months ago there was this HUGE thread that claimed that turning off traction control eliminated the shudder. That turned out to be bogus as well since we are still hearing folks complain. The point is, the complaints on the DCT has taken a life of its own so you should read them with a grain of salt.

What I WOULD like to see is whether there is a way to upgrade the 5 speed manual with the 6 speed available overseas. That would be nice!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
258 Posts
Most (but not all) of the folks complaining about the DCT are really complaining about how they don't like it. There are plenty of folks here who complain about the DCT but are still racking up impressive miles on them. Someone the other day posted a complaint but inadvertently admitted that he or she already had 98,000 miles on the DCT. I was like really? Where is the failure?

Even those who complain about the grinding noise still drive the car on the regular. Now I am not saying that grinding noise is good or normal, but considering that those cars ARE making grinding noises and yet still drives says something.

The Focus MK3 has been out now for two years and is currently on its third model year. To date, there are NO MASS TRANNY FAILS. What is happening is that there are several documented lemons out there but considering the amount reported compared to the total amount of MK3 sold it is quite small. Not to discount the problems reported but if your DCT is running fine, why would you be inquiring about replacing the tranny? As has been said before the ones who are not happy with their cars are the loudest on the "internets". That does not mean that there is an impending wave of tranny failures coming.

Furthermore, there is a rumor about a new improved DCT on the newer model Focus but no one yet has been able to definitively PROVE this to be the case. Also, some months ago there was this HUGE thread that claimed that turning off traction control eliminated the shudder. That turned out to be bogus as well since we are still hearing folks complain. The point is, the complaints on the DCT has taken a life of its own so you should read them with a grain of salt.

What I WOULD like to see is whether there is a way to upgrade the 5 speed manual with the 6 speed available overseas. That would be nice!
I agree with most of what you say, but until you have your DCT fail, you don't know what its like to live with it. My clutches were replaced and you should have seen the train wreck they removed. Only 13k and gears worn and stripped, and various bits of unknown metal. That's a FAILURE.

I too get tired of complaints which I know are normal for a DCT, or worse, those who think it should act like a slush box trans. In fact, even now, I get a little grind depending on speed and gear with the new trans but I know its nothing to get excited about since its now smooth shifting without that shudder that would spill your coffee right out of the cup holder.

As to it being a little problem, well, no one knows for sure how big the problem is since Ford isn't going to let the cat out of the bag. If my local dealer has processed over 34 clutch replacements in the last 4 months, and extrapolating that figure to the U.S. region alone gives a clue as to the size of the problem. IMO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
386 Posts
It's safe to say that transmission technician is a secure position at Ford dealerships.

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk 4
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
I agree with most of what you say, but until you have your DCT fail, you don't know what its like to live with it. My clutches were replaced and you should have seen the train wreck they removed. Only 13k and gears worn and stripped, and various bits of unknown metal. That's a FAILURE.

I too get tired of complaints which I know are normal for a DCT, or worse, those who think it should act like a slush box trans. In fact, even now, I get a little grind depending on speed and gear with the new trans but I know its nothing to get excited about since its now smooth shifting without that shudder that would spill your coffee right out of the cup holder.

As to it being a little problem, well, no one knows for sure how big the problem is since Ford isn't going to let the cat out of the bag. If my local dealer has processed over 34 clutch replacements in the last 4 months, and extrapolating that figure to the U.S. region alone gives a clue as to the size of the problem. IMO
I agree.

I would like to have every DCT defender forced to own a bad one, drive it every day with their friends and relatives asking whats that noise.

They take it on a long trip and have it shudder/shake and indecisively shift for 3 hours up and 3 hours back.

And then I'd like them to experience first hand the dealer memo telling them its a new style transmission and they are driving it wrong.

There is a world of difference between those that run right and what happens to you if its one of the small percent with these unrelenting problems.

You really and truly don't understand this until you have driven one, until then its just academic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
FWIW, a friend's wife has a VW with their version of the DCT transmission and he describes many of the same symptoms (lurching, indecisive shifting, slow shifting, etc) if he drives it like his other car with an automatic. If he's more aggressive and decisive with the throttle, it settles down. So, there is some truth to the idea that you need to drive it a certain way for it to perform better. I can imagine accelerated wear over a long time of driving it "incorrectly" as it doesn't know exactly when and how to shift. Given that, I think Ford should have only used these in vehicles intended to be driven more aggressively and left a traditional automatic as an option for "economy" cars.

I had a DCT-equipped Focus as a rental before buying mine (I bought the 5spd). It did seem to react better to more assertive throttle inputs, but I only had it for 24hrs. Since I wasn't aware of DCT issues at the time, I didn't really experiment. I just assumed its behavior was a programming tactic to get better mileage. I was still planning to get a DCT until learning about the potential reliability issues here.

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I agree.

I would like to have every DCT defender forced to own a bad one, drive it every day with their friends and relatives asking whats that noise.

They take it on a long trip and have it shudder/shake and indecisively shift for 3 hours up and 3 hours back.

And then I'd like them to experience first hand the dealer memo telling them its a new style transmission and they are driving it wrong.

There is a world of difference between those that run right and what happens to you if its one of the small percent with these unrelenting problems.

You really and truly don't understand this until you have driven one, until then its just academic.
we don't need to own a bad one. just come to this forum once a day. that's punishment enough [8D].
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
FWIW, a friend's wife has a VW with their version of the DCT transmission and he describes many of the same symptoms (lurching, indecisive shifting, slow shifting, etc) if he drives it like his other car with an automatic. If he's more aggressive and decisive with the throttle, it settles down

you get used to the way it drives and you adapt....or you don't. if you don't give it enough gas it lurches and stalls just like a car with a manual transmission.

my wife just got a new mazda CX5. the other day I drove it for the first time and i was amazed at how smooth it shifted -- in fact it drives very well unlike the 10-year-old CRV that it replaced which i thought drove like the original VW bug.

so i adapted to the focus but i did drive a rental hatch with DCT for three days prior to buying mine and i should add that i was smitten with the rental focus and at that point my previous five vehicles were Toyotas. i feel for the guys who have a bad DCTs. i know there are some bum units. but i think many of the issues complained about here ad nauseum are normal. my wife tells me there's plenty of complaining on the CX5 forum too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
FWIW, a friend's wife has a VW with their version of the DCT transmission and he describes many of the same symptoms (lurching, indecisive shifting, slow shifting, etc) if he drives it like his other car with an automatic. If he's more aggressive and decisive with the throttle, it settles down

you get used to the way it drives and you adapt....or you don't. if you don't give it enough gas it lurches and stalls just like a car with a manual transmission.

my wife just got a new mazda CX5. the other day I drove it for the first time and i was amazed at how smooth it shifted -- in fact it drives very well unlike the 10-year-old CRV that it replaced which i thought drove like the original VW bug.

so i adapted to the focus but i did drive a rental hatch with DCT for three days prior to buying mine and i should add that i was smitten with the rental focus and at that point my previous five vehicles were Toyotas. i feel for the guys who have a bad DCTs. i know there are some bum units. but i think many of the issues complained about here ad nauseum are normal. my wife tells me there's plenty of complaining on the CX5 forum too.
what is food for thought is the many posts you can read here where symptoms that are supposed to be normal, go away after parts are replaced.

even in my own case, all symptoms went away during the cold new england winter and then returned when it was hot enough for the AC to be on.

never mind all the memos and posts, just take a few moments to ask yourself:

how can a symptom which is supposed to be normal.....go away when parts are replaced or the weather changes ?
 
1 - 20 of 93 Posts
Top