[alz focus]

Already posted in SPI performance but get more action here.
Here are two videos of the same thing I have:
http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=110gc34&s=4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_5MZ0BD89A

Has anyone successfully remedied this noise? I do believe it is vavletrain related. The question is, is it lifters or valves, camshaft?
Been told it was piston slap also.
Could be a rod knock.
Seems common and many people have put alot of miles on their cars with this going on.
If it's not too complicated to repair, I would like to fix it.
What do you think?

 

[whynotthinkwhynot]

You need Mikebontoft to answer you. He knows whether or not that is the dreaded valve seat drop noise. If it is, you should have the head removed and rebuilt ASAP or you'll end up with a KOed motor. A compression test might point to that being the culprit if you have one cylinder close to 10% off or you're experiencing fouling in one cylinder with standard plugs- plats and iridiums don't foul.

 

[alz focus]

A little background info:
Purchased a month ago. 150k miles.
Compression test 1-4: 180,175,172,180psi
Signs of head being worked on previously: new EGR gasket, missing one ex manifold stud, new valve cover gasket, and a loose bracket under the intake manifold.

No lose of power and runs/ idles fine.

 

[whynotthinkwhynot]

I'd pull one of the other exhaust bolts, match the size, and put something else in there. Grade 5 should be fine, SS best. Fix the loose bracket too so those things don't confuse you.

It does sound like it might be a lifter to me. Before doing surgery, I'd try something less invasive.

I'm not well schooled on SPIs, I do think it has a hydraulic valve-train, so you might consider changing to a thicker oil and replacing one quart with Marvel Mystery Oil. That should free up a stuck lifter. It has for me in the past. If that doesn't fix it, or fixes it temporarily, then you need to identify as best as you can where exactly on the cylinder head that noise comes from. Then replace the lifters closest to where you hear it- if you can't tell by removing and inspecting. Older engines tend to do well with thicker oil- that's another trick. I used to run 20w50 religiously in my old Aerostar after I heard it knocking clicking and clacking about with 5w30. I drove that thing like that for like 50k miles.

How's the timing belt look? Does it look recently replaced like the other parts? Yours might've had the valve seat repair done to it when the timing belt needed to be changed.

 

[alz focus]

Those missing and loose bolts were fixed already.
Did an oil change as soon as I got it and used 10w40. Seemed to help a bit. Was thinking of changing it again and using some Lucas or Marvel to see if that would clean out a sticking lifter. Should I try thinner oil, maybe 5w20, see if that changes anything?
I will be doing the t-belt soon. If it is like everything else on this car, I'm sure it is original.
Alot of things have been neglected, all motor mounts trashed and a few heat shields hanging down(all fixed now). When I test drove the car, I couldn't hear the knocking over all the other noises.

 

[mikebontoft]

it may just be my phone... but it sounds pretty loud. fyi, I had great compression until the seat actually dropped.

If in fact it is the seat, it may come and go since right now all its doing is bouncing around. still forms a good seal when the valve closes.

I would honestly try some motor honey (or equivalent treatment) and see what it does. if it quiets up then something else is weird.

if not, just be aware that if it drops while driving youll lose power (hopefully not put a rod through the block) and the next light you stop at it will shut off and not start till it cools off for a bit (dont ask me why cause I dont know).

if youre lucky (sounds pretty common to be though) youll need a head and a piston/ rod combo which Ill be more than happy to supply since I have 3 good ones... and the cylinder will need to be honed and the intake manifold will need to be washed out.

 

[alz focus]

Just to clear things up, neither of those was my car. The sound is the same though. Second one seems a little closer to mine.
Do you think the valve is going to drop again?
I have no info from previous owner, but do you think the head was worked over once already given the things I found: missing bolts, loose brackets, new gaskets?

 

[whynotthinkwhynot]

do you think the head was worked over once already given the things I found: missing bolts, loose brackets, new gaskets?

Possibly, the only thing I can tell for sure with that knowledge is that the person who did what I'd call a "Monday" job.

 

[mikebontoft]

true, and it could have even been a head gasket that had been done..

I know those werent yours... but if it sounds like it then thats my best guess.

 

[iminhell]

Sounds like a lifter to me.
Pretty simple to pull the VC and check them with a 'wiggle test'.
Sometimes you can unstick a lifter by running trans fluid with the oil. If that doesn't work, I can't imagine new ones are that expensive.

... and the noise seemingly getting better with thicker oil fits the bill too. Higher viscosity means higher oil pressure. Which can help slightly with a collapsed lifter.

 

[jmcrides03]

pretty sure its a lifter mines been doing that for atleast 10 thousand miles now if it was a seat mine would have went by now. and iirc new ones are 18 bucks at autozone im just lazy/dont care. ill fix that and upgrade the valve seats if my motor survives long enough to see boost

 

[alz focus]

I think this week I am going to try some motor flush product and then try some motor honey with fresh oil.
I did pull the cover and tried pushing down on all the lifters to see if maybe one was collapsed, but I really don't know what I would be looking for.
To replace a lifter, is it just a drop in or do I need to pull the camshaft?

 

[iminhell]

To replace a lifter, is it just a drop in or do I need to pull the camshaft?

Pull VC.
Pull rocker shafts.
Pull lifters out of rockers.
Install new lifters.

And in some cases you might not have to completely remove the rocker shafts.
Also it's best to place the new lifters in a tub of transmission fluid and pump them by hand (just squeeze a few times between your fingers, you'll feel them firm up).

 

[alz focus]

Gunk Motor Flush, 5w30 oil and filter change adding Motor Honey and a few ounces of Marvel Mystery oil I had left on the bench, ran it up to temp and then drove it a few miles getting on it.
Runs a little better and knocking is very close to being gone. Maybe just a little ticking, more than just the injectors.
I will put a couple thousand miles on it and update.
I'm thinking lifters was the problem.

 

[jmcrides03]

ive already tried that its more of a band-aid than an actual fix. if it was the lifters it will come back. when mine strarted i put a bottle of rislone in with my oil and it all but stopped, for a while but was back before my next oil change

 

[alz focus]

Yeah, I know. I still do hear the sound, especially when cold. Better once it's at oper temp. I just may spring for some lifters, maybe go two at a time and see if I can quiet this thing once and for all.

 

[jmcrides03]

i used the old one end of a screw driver on the valve cover (pointed end) other end to your ear and with that i could pretty well isolate the noise and figure out which lifter it was before my vc ever came off i just dont remember which one it was because because that was probably closer to a year ago now that i think about it

 

[alz focus]

jmcrides03, did you put new lifters in? Did that repair it? Just ordered 4.

 

[alz focus]

Update: Bought 4 new lifters, swapped half and no improvement. I exchanged those new ones to the other side of the head with no improvement. Sorry guys, lifters didn't really help.
I am now running 20W50 in the car. Start up is still pretty noisy. Settles down a bit. When I drive it hard, running the rpms up alot and then stop and let it idle, it's much quieter. Not sure what this tells me. Maybe oil pump?
Any thoughts?

 

[galileofigaro]

sorry to tell you this but looks like a dropped valve, meaning better to buy a new car or replace the engine, whichever is more affordable to you.
Here's a video of mine. Needed to replace the engine for a few thousands, couldn't afford a car.
Good luck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vknwmV_pi0w