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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Many different theories of the correct Getrag fluid for our SVT. The comment that the trans is the same as the mini cooper is partially correct. The mini uses 2 different manuals and an auto. The cooper-S uses our SVT (285) trans. I believe there is much mis-information about using similar fluids to the mini cooper as the base cooper uses a 252 Getrag.
WD40 has linked a page from his SVT manual that indicates ATF fluid. My 2003 manual makes no mention of that, and I suspect it is not correct.

When comparing the fluid specs, it is apparent that the synchromax type fluids are not the correct spec for this trans. I listed in order below my choices based on similarities with the Ford spec fluid. For the boosted SVT's the second choice of Amsoil Severe Gear is probably pretty safe. For the NA vehicles, looking at saving friction to get the most FE and power leads to the Amsoil Synth Man trans lube. I keep picking the Amsoil based on their website info and the lack of competitors similar comparison data. You can decide for youself, but look at the specs first. The Kinematic viscosity at 40C and 100C show the thickness of the fluids at those temps, lower is better for friction reduction, but unsure of protection. The 4-ball wear is a standard test, with lower is better numbers, some motor oils have .32 ratings. The falex test involved load carrying capacity where higher is better and 2500 appears to be the top area.

The Ford perscribed WSD-M2C200-C (75W90 Gear oil) fluid has specs as follows (from the Ford pubilcation):
Kinematic Viscosity Visc
Fluid cSt 100 cSt 40 Idx 4-ball wear Falex
WSD-MC2 15.4 76 211 ? ?

Amsoil
Synt Man Tr 14.7 84.5 151 .45 ?

Amsoil
Severe gear 16.7 109.1 165 2500

Amsoil
Long Life Gr 16.6 129.7 137 2000

Royal Purp
Max Gear 19.1 132

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Amsoil
Synchromesh 9.6 47.1 194 .40

Royal Purp
Synchromax 7.7 35.3 196


As you can see the synchroxxx fluids are substantially thinner than the Ford spec fluid. You may want to seriously reconsider using the synchroxxx fluids in this trans.
Does anyone have specs on other fluids that may be lower in viscosity and within spec for this trans? Always looking to reduce friction and increase HP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
How do you get spaces right in this space?

----------------Kinematic Viscosity---------Visc
Fluid -----------cSt 100-------cSt 40-------Idx-----------4-ball wear-------Falex
WSD-MC2--------15.4-----------76 ---------211--------------?-------------?

Amsoil
Synt Man Tr------14.7-----------84.5---------151-----------.45------------ ?

Amsoil
Severe gear------16.7-----------109.1--------165------------?----------- 2500

Amsoil
Long Life Gr------16.6------------129.7--------137------------?----------- 2000

Royal Purp
Max Gear---------19.1------------132-----------?-------------?-------------?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Amsoil
Synchromesh -----9.6 -------------47.1 --------194 ----------.40-----------?

Royal Purp
Synchromax -------7.7 ------------35.3 --------196------------?------------?


The Royal purple site also call for 10w40 for the SVT fluid, but I could not find the specs on that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The Amsoil is half the price of the Ford WSD-M2C200-C, so I was figuring on save a few bucks and getting .001 HP ;).

At this point with the service grading, pretty much any oil (as long as it is the correct grade for your car) should be pretty reliable.

Tom,
In some of the tuner mags, they are constantly quoting ~5hp from wizz-bang synthetic over mineral based oil. Have you ever looked at any HP gain on the dyno using one oil vs another?
 

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I've been using RP for a while. I'm probably just gonna use something a bit cheaper next, I don't think it makes enough of a difference for the extra cash
 

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The Amsoil is half the price of the Ford WSD-M2C200-C, so I was figuring on save a few bucks and getting .001 HP ;).

At this point with the service grading, pretty much any oil (as long as it is the correct grade for your car) should be pretty reliable.

Tom,
In some of the tuner mags, they are constantly quoting ~5hp from wizz-bang synthetic over mineral based oil. Have you ever looked at any HP gain on the dyno using one oil vs another?
I 100% like the synthetic oils and feel there can be gains from using them , Just so there is no confusion about this I do not mean oils like rp , amsoil etc , I mean std on the shelf syn oils

Tom
 

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Tom, whats your opinion on what fluid i should use on a stock tranny with a cammed motor? For the svt....
 

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well i have syncromax from royal purple in my svt right now, what would you recommend for spirited daily driver and lives in the midwest?
 

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I run RP syncromax as well but im woundering if i can get away with something else..


Oh and for more input on what i should use (Tom) the car isnt used for daily driving. Its track and shows only.
 

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Tom,
In some of the tuner mags, they are constantly quoting ~5hp from wizz-bang synthetic over mineral based oil. Have you ever looked at any HP gain on the dyno using one oil vs another?
There is a book called "High Performance Ford Focus Builder's Handbook" written by Richard Holdener in 2003 that ran a dyno test on a stock Zetec using conventional oil and then Redline synthetic. His conclusion was 2-3 hp at wheels improvement with the synthetic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Looked like about $18 per quart, but how many time do you change trans fluid.
I started this because I was concerned about the synchromax viscosity that looked a bit thin compared to the Ford spec fluids. Hate to see trans dropping from bad fluid choices.
 

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One has to be careful with equating higher viscosity numbers with being better. Beyond a certain point higher viscosities simply cause more heat generation.

In something like a gearbox you need to achieve a certain minimum viscosity for the rolling element bearings. Typically SKF will suggest 10 Cst as a minimum. All the oils you list will easily achieve that since the operating temperature for the gearbox should be well below 100 deg C.

For the gears themselves, the additive package in the oil is more important since you typically have extremely high sliding pressures at the tooth contact points. Again I'd expect most "quality" oils to have a good additive package which is rated for EP contact.

Once you have satisfied those requirements, thinner is generally better from a fuel economy and heat generation standpoint.

If you look back in history, the motor oils used were generally much more viscous than the modern recommendations. Its not that the bearing technology improved that much, its just the manufacturers wanted better fuel economy and improved analysis techniques showed that you could safely run with thinner oils.
 

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i hate reading these parts...I had my mind set on something, then i read this...and now i am all torn up inside (tranny fluid)
 

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One has to be careful with equating higher viscosity numbers with being better. Beyond a certain point higher viscosities simply cause more heat generation.

In something like a gearbox you need to achieve a certain minimum viscosity for the rolling element bearings. Typically SKF will suggest 10 Cst as a minimum. All the oils you list will easily achieve that since the operating temperature for the gearbox should be well below 100 deg C.

For the gears themselves, the additive package in the oil is more important since you typically have extremely high sliding pressures at the tooth contact points. Again I'd expect most "quality" oils to have a good additive package which is rated for EP contact.

Once you have satisfied those requirements, thinner is generally better from a fuel economy and heat generation standpoint.

If you look back in history, the motor oils used were generally much more viscous than the modern recommendations. Its not that the bearing technology improved that much, its just the manufacturers wanted better fuel economy and improved analysis techniques showed that you could safely run with thinner oils.
Agree , If your looking for MPG and your engine is close to stock then just stick with the oil like what came in your car maybe going to synthetic to help more
BUT ! If you making 1 to 6 times the stock HP then the stock WT oils and builds in my opinion are not going to do the job

Tom
 

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i hate reading these parts...I had my mind set on something, then i read this...and now i am all torn up inside (tranny fluid)
Agreed, I am planning on changing my tranny fluid this weekend when I do my oil.. was planning on some RP, but now just thinking a quality synthetic..
 
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