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Torretto!
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When Ford finally gets the DCT/Powershift transmission working right the focus will be a fast economy car.
Because no-one has working dct's, right? [rolleyes]
 

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Yeah, but for how long? ;)
 

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I began hearing transmission chatter this morning, ironically enough. My Focus is still under warranty. Do you have any idea what Ford would do about this? Anything you suggest I do in the mean time?

I'm going to wait a while before doing anything. The Focus is still under warranty and the wife and I are really busy with life right now.
I'm sorry to hear that. From what I've read here, you'd want to try your dealer first, but if they give you the "everything is normal, you must be driving it wrong" rap, seek out one of the Ford reps here at this board and get your case escalated.
Also, though it isn't right, there seems to be a wide range of dealer responses and only some of them will work at fixing your DCT tranny.
 
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I'm sorry to hear that. From what I've read here, you'd want to try your dealer first, but if they give you the "everything is normal, you must be driving it wrong" rap, seek out one of the Ford reps here at this board and get your case escalated.
Also, though it isn't right, there seems to be a wide range of dealer responses and only some of them will work at fixing your DCT tranny.
Alrighty then. Thank you!

[cheers]
 

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Torretto!
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While I appreciate effort of the original post writer about teaching us "habits" of MK3 FF DCT, I think that very existence of these "habits" is a sign of a bad mechanical/software design of the engine ECU/transmission.

This particular car has all of the drive controls implemented "by-wire", including throttle. When a driver presses gas pedal, it is nothing more than a joystick signal to the ECU. ALL decisions to change the engine/transmission actuator parameters are controlled by ECU, including the power steering motor that is capable of adjusting steering angle (without turning the driver wheel) as a reaction to highway cross-wind, for example (a neat feature that is not widely publicized).

My point is that a driver is completely disconnected from the engine/transmission control, so any particular adjustments of the gas pedal presses should be TOTALLY unnecessary - all the proper decisions should be done by the ECU firmware as a reaction to the gas pedal press. For example, my several other (non-Ford) cars required no special handling of the gas pedal.
Obviously it is not the case for DCT behaviour, and as I said, it is a sign of inferior ECU firmware design.
 

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While I appreciate effort of the original post writer about teaching us "habits" of MK3 FF DCT, I think that very existence of these "habits" is a sign of a bad mechanical/software design of the engine ECU/transmission.

This particular car has all of the drive controls implemented "by-wire", including throttle. When a driver presses gas pedal, it is nothing more than a joystick signal to the ECU. ALL decisions to change the engine/transmission actuator parameters are controlled by ECU, including the power steering motor that is capable of adjusting steering angle (without turning the driver wheel) as a reaction to highway cross-wind, for example (a neat feature that is not widely publicized).

My point is that a driver is completely disconnected from the engine/transmission control, so any particular adjustments of the gas pedal presses should be TOTALLY unnecessary - all the proper decisions should be done by the ECU firmware as a reaction to the gas pedal press. For example, my several other (non-Ford) cars required no special handling of the gas pedal.
Obviously it is not the case for DCT behaviour, and as I said, it is a sign of inferior ECU firmware design.
The post writer was elaborating on documents from Ford itself, trying to help folks learn to drive the DCT properly.

I would just add to your post a point I have brought up many times before.

many of the things in Fords memo which you are told are "normal" go away when you have TSBs applied, or the TCM replaced or a reflash. Amongst the various fixes Ford has come up with are new clutchs, cleaning clutches, replacing seals and combinations thereof.

If these symptoms were "normal" then how can they go away? (this question is rhetorical, because they were not normal, no matter how many memos Ford prints)

It may well be that Fords dry clutch version has problems but anyone who has owned a wet dual clutch car, like my GTI, does not have to call those symptoms normal. I can not speak for other GTI owners, and maybe I was just plain lucky but I had none of the suddering, clattering, bogging type problems discussed here for years. Is the wet clutch version that different? I can't address that but I have seen all the worst symptoms go away when properly repaired by Ford. (granted they come back)
 

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Strichmädchen & Koks
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Discussion Starter #208
While I appreciate effort of the original post writer about teaching us "habits" of MK3 FF DCT, I think that very existence of these "habits" is a sign of a bad mechanical/software design of the engine ECU/transmission.

This particular car has all of the drive controls implemented "by-wire", including throttle. When a driver presses gas pedal, it is nothing more than a joystick signal to the ECU. ALL decisions to change the engine/transmission actuator parameters are controlled by ECU, including the power steering motor that is capable of adjusting steering angle (without turning the driver wheel) as a reaction to highway cross-wind, for example (a neat feature that is not widely publicized).

My point is that a driver is completely disconnected from the engine/transmission control, so any particular adjustments of the gas pedal presses should be TOTALLY unnecessary - all the proper decisions should be done by the ECU firmware as a reaction to the gas pedal press. For example, my several other (non-Ford) cars required no special handling of the gas pedal.
Obviously it is not the case for DCT behaviour, and as I said, it is a sign of inferior ECU firmware design.
For obvious reasons the ECU is not in COMPLETE control of certain parameters. While the ECU will "massage" the throttle signal in various ways, what your foot does is still more or less what the throttle does. Ford cannot possibly make it so that the accelerator is a simple "go pedal" (at least not yet...) and the computer does the rest of the work. If you push the accelerator pedal hard from a stop you will accelerate faster then if you gradually push it.

Regardless, the point of that post is to help drivers operate their DCT equipped Focus in a manner that reduces any inherent issues in the design (whether they be "normal" or otherwise). There are some things that every DCT will always do, as that is just how the design works. Some things can be fixed but haven't been for whatever reason.

I don't really care what is and isn't "wrong" with the gearbox, I set out to find just how much I can improve the feel of it through driving habits alone, and that spawned this thread. Sometimes you gotta work with what you've got.

In short: this isn't the place to bitch about problems with the gearbox. Plenty of threads for that. This is the place to attempt several remedies to alleviate any issues folks may be having - regardless of the cause of the issue.
 

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For obvious reasons the ECU is not in COMPLETE control of certain parameters. While the ECU will "massage" the throttle signal in various ways, what your foot does is still more or less what the throttle does. Ford cannot possibly make it so that the accelerator is a simple "go pedal" (at least not yet...) and the computer does the rest of the work. If you push the accelerator pedal hard from a stop you will accelerate faster then if you gradually push it.

Regardless, the point of that post is to help drivers operate their DCT equipped Focus in a manner that reduces any inherent issues in the design (whether they be "normal" or otherwise). There are some things that every DCT will always do, as that is just how the design works. Some things can be fixed but haven't been for whatever reason.

I don't really care what is and isn't "wrong" with the gearbox, I set out to find just how much I can improve the feel of it through driving habits alone, and that spawned this thread. Sometimes you gotta work with what you've got.

In short: this isn't the place to bitch about problems with the gearbox. Plenty of threads for that. This is the place to attempt several remedies to alleviate any issues folks may be having - regardless of the cause of the issue.
It is a matter of gas pedal signal ECU mapping to interpret a particular angle of the pedal, and what to do as a reaction to it. ECU is in TOTAL control of this signal interpretation. It is much different than earlier cars behavior where throttle was actuated directly by the pedal press through a steel wire.

MK3 Ford Focus ECU tries to emulate this older car behavior, but it is not obligated to do so. It has 100% freedom to adjust all engine/throttle/transmission/steering parameters. If transmission does not allow for momentary change of its actuators, for example, ECU should take this into account and wait a bit longer rather than slamming a requested gear in place, causing obnoxious gear grinding or shudder because other transmission components are not ready due to inertia or something like that.

Again, I appreciate effort to teach people how to handle this car, but feel that its special DCT-related behavior should not be perceived as if this car has a "feature" rather than a "bug". Otherwise people may feel that they are at fault for the car shuddering, only because they do not know how to drive it "properly". I have seen multiple referrals to this post where forum participants accused others that they just do not know how to handle MK3 FF properly to avoid DCT shudder and hesitation, for example.
 

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Old Phart
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As the OP just requested, let's leave this thread for comments on "normal" behavior and what works for individuals to get the best responses from a unit that is NOT currently eligible for warranty repair for a major issue.
 

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Infidel
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If you want to drive a car with a really bad DCT, try the VW Jetta. Drove one today as a chase vehicle. That DCT bucked, shuddered, and shifted so hard. And that was in just more than 1st gear. That tranny shuddered in 4th gear sometimes.
 

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Quick question about the hill launch assist on mine - does this more or less function the same way as a sport mode? I've noticed when I have the hill launch assist on, it seems to shift at higher rpm than when it's off. It also tends to engine brake more. I typically drive with the hill launch assist on when I'm in the city, and highway I drive with it off since it's not shifting once I'm up to speed. The whole damn thing seems weird. It is admittedly more fun to drive with the hill launch assist on.
 

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Quick question about the hill launch assist on mine - does this more or less function the same way as a sport mode? I've noticed when I have the hill launch assist on, it seems to shift at higher rpm than when it's off. It also tends to engine brake more. I typically drive with the hill launch assist on when I'm in the city, and highway I drive with it off since it's not shifting once I'm up to speed. The whole damn thing seems weird. It is admittedly more fun to drive with the hill launch assist on.
I always thought it was hill dissent mode. I use it when I want to engine brake while going downhill. I tried it as a hill launch (?) and it's not doing what I would expect it to do (my vehicle rolls back when I let go my brakes)
 

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Focus Addict
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Quick question about the hill launch assist on mine - does this more or less function the same way as a sport mode? I've noticed when I have the hill launch assist on, it seems to shift at higher rpm than when it's off. It also tends to engine brake more. I typically drive with the hill launch assist on when I'm in the city, and highway I drive with it off since it's not shifting once I'm up to speed. The whole damn thing seems weird. It is admittedly more fun to drive with the hill launch assist on.
I always thought it was hill dissent mode. I use it when I want to engine brake while going downhill. I tried it as a hill launch (?) and it's not doing what I would expect it to do (my vehicle rolls back when I let go my brakes)
Chemwar, Yanik is right, it's not the hill launch assist but rather the hill descent control, which locks the car out of 6th gear as well as holding onto lower gears longer.

Yanik, the hill start assist/ hill launch assist requires you to fully depress the brake, and for the yaw sensor to detect a sufficient grade to activate. It will only hold the brakes in for about two seconds before it cuts the clutch back out and allows the car to roll backwards.
 

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The interesting part is mine does both. I was curious about it once, and if memory serves correct (will update once I'm out of work) my destructions manual call it a launch assist.

Would it be wiser to drive with it on in the city (i.e. stop and go) since it honestly feels more like a standard? I haven't noticed any problems driving it like this so far, just wondering if anyone has any better insight.
 

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Old Phart
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Yes, two separate functions and the hill start/grade assist doesn't need to be manually selected (no switch for it).
 

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Quick question about the hill launch assist on mine - does this more or less function the same way as a sport mode? I've noticed when I have the hill launch assist on, it seems to shift at higher rpm than when it's off. It also tends to engine brake more. I typically drive with the hill launch assist on when I'm in the city, and highway I drive with it off since it's not shifting once I'm up to speed. The whole damn thing seems weird. It is admittedly more fun to drive with the hill launch assist on.
Hill start assist is automatic. You do not select it.

From the owners manual

HILL START ASSIST (IF EQUIPPED)
WARNING: The hill start assist feature does not replace the
parking brake. When you leave the vehicle, always apply the
parking brake and shift the transmission into P (Park) for automatic
transmission or 1st gear for manual transmissions.
WARNING: You must remain in the vehicle once you have
activated the hill start assist feature.

WARNING: During all times, you are responsible for controlling
the vehicle, supervising the hill start assist system and
intervening, if required.

WARNING: If the engine is revved excessively, or if a
malfunction is detected when the hill start assist feature is active,
the hill start assist feature will be deactivated.
This feature makes it easier to pull away when the vehicle is on a slope
without the need to use the parking brake. When this feature is active,
the vehicle will remain stationary on the slope for two to three seconds
after you release the brake pedal. This allows you time to move your
foot from the brake to the accelerator pedal. The brakes are released
automatically once the engine has developed sufficient drive to prevent the vehicle from rolling down the slope. This is an advantage when
pulling away on a slope, (for example from a car park ramp, traffic lights
or when reversing uphill into a parking space).
This feature is activated automatically on any slope that can result in
significant vehicle rollback.

Using Hill Start Assist
Note: If the engine is revved excessively, hill start assist will be
deactivated.
1. Press the brake pedal to bring the vehicle to a complete standstill.
Keep the brake pedal pressed.
2. If the sensors detect that the vehicle is on a slope, the hill start assist
feature will be activated automatically.
3. When you remove your foot from the brake pedal, the vehicle will
remain on the slope without rolling away for approximately two or three
seconds. This hold time will automatically be extended if you are in the
process of driving off.
4. Drive off in the normal manner. The brakes will be released
automatically.
Note: Using the brakes and the hill start assist is the recommended
method of holding a position on a hill. It is not recommended to use the
accelerator pedal and engine torque to hold a hill position for an
extended period of time. Doing so will over heat the clutch in vehicles
equipped with a manual transmissions.

  • Here's how the grade assist on the PowerShift trans works
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/8714281-post173.html


  • Here is what the sport mode on the SelectShift works.
S (Sport) (If Equipped)
Moving the gearshift lever to S (Sport):
• Provides additional grade (engine) braking and extends lower gear
operation to enhance performance for uphill climbs, hilly terrain or
mountainous areas. This will increase engine RPM during engine
braking.
• Provides additional lower gear operation through the automatic
transmission shift strategy which reacts to vehicle inputs (vehicle
acceleration, accelerator pedal, brake pedal and vehicle speed).
• Gears are selected more quickly and at higher engine speeds

Looks to be the same-ish
 

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Focus Addict
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My car does that even without hill descent mode on.
Yes, that's what I said, this is part of the hill start assist, not the hill descent mode. (For starting on a grade, not slowing down on a grade)
 
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