Focus Fanatics Forum banner

1 - 20 of 150 Posts

·
Sonic Mk3 Crew #03
Joined
·
1,842 Posts
Discussion Starter #1


55w 6000k lows and 35w 3000k Foglights.
Oh Look at the cutoff on those, Even the foglights have a cut off Holy crap!

Ive been selling HIDs in Florida for 2 Years now with over 200+ installs and I noticed the trend starting with most 08 and up cars with these decent cut offs. Ofcourse these cut offs arent projector worthy straight lines but I see no issues with these at all. Output comparison is insane and with every kit ive ever installed everyone says the same thing. Oh I have this can you install those the difference at night is amazing.

Hands down done right there should be no "Glare" "Blinding" "Scatter" or what ever other HID Troll terms there are. The main issue with glare is when people use non clear lenses or the lenses are yellowed, that projects the light onto the housing causing it to blind drivers and not producing proper output (Still greater then halogens in any case)
For those that say HIDs in reflectors produce no difference or less has never had HIDs installed in their cars or bought a 40 dollar kit off ebay. (In which case they had to pick the crappiest one because Ive never seen an HID kit not provide ample lighting.

These headlights had to be adjusted up because they focused the light output more then the halogens. Ive driven infront of my car and while it was coming at me on a road and its not blinding at all and none of the Above terms came to mind.

But like most trolls theres always something to argue about lol so go for it. I will just be paying attention to the people with serious questions and interests.

Thank you,
Focusboy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
671 Posts
sure I'll bite

Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply-

Thinking of converting to HID?

So you've read about HID headlamps and have it in mind to convert your car. A few mouse clicks on the web, and you've found a couple of outfits offering to sell you a "conversion" that will fit any car with a given type of halogen bulb. STOP! Put away that credit card.

An "HID kit" consists of HID ballasts and bulbs for retrofitting into a halogen headlamp. Kits for replacement of standard round or rectangular sealed-beam headlamps usually include a poor-quality replaceable-bulb headlight lens-reflector unit that's not safe or legal even when equipped with the intended (usually H4) halogen bulb. Often, these products are advertised using the name of a reputable lighting company ("Real Philips kit! Real Osram kit! Real Hella kit!") to try to give the potential buyer the illusion of legitimacy. On rare occasion, some of the components in these kits did start out as legitimate HID headlight bulbs made by reputable companies, but they are modified (hacked) by the "HID kit" suppliers, and they aren't being put to their designed or intended use. Reputable companies like Philips, Osram, Hella, etc. never endorse this kind of hacked usage of their products. Nevertheless, it's easy to get "HID kits" from China bearing the (unauthorised, counterfeit) brands of major, reputable companies. See this page for just a few examples of the many packaging options offered by just one Chinese maker of "HID kits".

Halogen headlamps and HID headlamps require very different optics to produce a safe and effective—not to mention legal—beam pattern. How come? Because of the very different characteristics of the two kinds of light source.

A halogen bulb has a cylindrical light source: the glowing filament. The space immediately surrounding the cylinder of light is completely dark, and so the sharpest contrast between bright and dark is along the edges of the cylinder of light. The ends of the filament cylinder fade from bright to dark. An HID bulb, on the other hand, has a crescent-shaped light source -- the arc. It's crescent-shaped because as it passes through the space between the two electrodes, its heat causes it to try to rise. The space immediately surrounding the crescent of light glows in layers...the closer to the crescent of light, the brighter the glow. The ends of the arc crescent are the brightest points, and immediately beyond these points is completely dark, so the sharpest contrast between bright and dark is at the ends of the crescent of light.

This diagram shows the very different characteristics of the filament vs. the arc:


When designing the optics (lens and/or reflector) for a lamp, the characteristics of the light source are the driving factor around which everything else must be engineered. If you go and change the light source, you've done the equivalent of putting on somebody else's eyeglasses: You can probably make them fit on your face OK, but you won't see properly.

Here are some downloadable PDF tests done by DOT and CalCoast Labs on halogen headlamps equipped with "HID kits":

Test #1, with 9004 "HID kit" vs. 9004 bulb
http://dastern.torque.net/techdocs/HID/HB1_HID_Retro.pdf

Test #2, with 9006 "HID kit" vs. 9006 bulb
http://dastern.torque.net/techdocs/HID/HB4_HID_Retro.pdf

Test #3, with 9004 "HID kit" vs. 9004 bulb
http://dastern.torque.net/techdocs/HID/HB1_HID_Retro_a.pdf

And here is a UK documentary showing the results of installing "HID kits" in E-code headlamps designed to produce a sharp cutoff on low beam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVuSSdZNsZw&feature=player_embedded

Some "HID kit" marketeers will try to tell you that the kits are technically illegal only because the US headlamp laws are stuck in the past. That's wrong; the world's experts and regulators all say the same thing: Don't!

Now, what about those "retrofit" jobs in which the beam cutoff still appears sharp? Don't be fooled; it's an error to judge a beam pattern solely by its cutoff. In many lamps, especially the projector types, the cutoff will remain the same regardless of what light source is behind it. Halogen bulb, HID capsule, cigarette lighter, firefly, hold it up to the sun—whatever. That's because of the way a projector lamp works. The cutoff is simply the projected image of a piece of metal running side-to-side behind the lens. Where the optics come in is in distributing the light under the cutoff. And, as with all other automotive lamps (and, in fact, all optical instruments), the optics are calculated based not just on where the light source is within the lamp (focal length) but also the specific photometric characteristics of the light source...which parts of it are brighter, which parts of it are darker, where the boundaries of the light source are, whether the boundaries are sharp or fuzzy, the shape of the light source, and so forth.

As if the optical mismatch weren't reason enough to drop the idea of "retrofitting" an HID bulb where a halogen one belongs—and it is!—there are even more reasons why not to do it. Here are some of them:

The only available arc capsules have a longitudinal arc (arc path runs front to back) on the axis of the bulb, but many popular halogen headlamp bulbs, such as 9004, 9007, H3 and H12, use a filament that is transverse (side-to-side) and/or offset (not on the axis of the bulb) central axis of the headlamp reflector). In this case, it is impossible even to roughly approximate the position and orientation of the filament with a "retrofit" HID capsule. Just because your headlamp might use an axial-filament bulb, though, doesn't mean you've jumped the hurdles—the laws of optical physics don't bend even for the cleverest marketing department, nor for the catchiest HID "retrofit" kit box.

A relatively new gimmick is HID arc capsules set in an electromagnetic base so that they shift up and down or back and forth. These are being marketed as "dual beam" kits that claim to address the loss of high beam with fixed-base "retrofits" in place of dual-filament halogen bulbs like 9004, 9007, H4, and H13. A cheaper variant of this is one that uses a fixed HID bulb with a halogen bulb strapped or glued to the side of it...yikes! What you wind up with is two poorly-formed beams, at best. The reason the original equipment market has not adopted the movable-capsule designs they've been playing with since the mid 1990s is because it is impossible to control the arc position accurately so it winds up in the same position each and every time.

In the original-equipment field, there are single-capsule dual-beam systems appearing ("BiXenon", etc.), but these all rely on a movable optical shield, or movable reflector—the arc capsule stays in one place. The Original Equipment engineers have a great deal of money and resources at their disposal, and if a movable capsule were a practical way to do the job, they'd do it. The "retrofit" kits certainly don't address this problem anywhere near satisfaction. And even if they did, remember: Whether a fixed or moving-capsule "retrofit" is contemplated, solving the arc-position problem and calling it good is like going to a hospital with two broken ribs, a sprained ankle and a crushed toe and having the nurse say "Well, you're free to go home now, we've put your ankle in a sling!" Focal length (arc/filament positioning) is only just ONE issue out of several.

The most dangerous part of the attempt to "retrofit" Xenon headlamps is that sometimes you get a deceptive and illusory "improvement" in the performance of the headlamp. The performance of the headlamp is perceived to be "better" because of the much higher level of foreground lighting (on the road immediately in front of the car). However, the beam patterns produced by this kind of "conversion" virtually always give less distance light, and often an alarming lack of light where there's meant to be a relative maximum in light intensity. The result is the illusion that you can see better than you actually can, and that's not safe.

It's tricky to judge headlamp beam performance without a lot of knowledge, a lot of training and a lot of special equipment, because subjective perceptions are very misleading. Having a lot of strong light in the foreground, that is on the road close to the car and out to the sides, is very comforting and reliably produces a strong impression of "good headlights". The problem is that not only is foreground lighting of decidedly secondary importance when travelling much above 30 mph, but having a very strong pool of light close to the car causes your pupils to close down, worsening your distance vision...all the while giving you this false sense of security. This is to say nothing of the massive amounts of glare to other road users and backdazzle to you, the driver, that results from these "retrofits".

HID headlamps also require careful weatherproofing and electrical shielding because of the high voltages involved. These unsafe "retrofits" make it physically possible to insert an HID bulb where a halogen bulb belongs, but this practice is illegal and dangerous, regardless of claims by these marketers that their systems are "beam pattern corrected" or the fraudulent use of established brand names to try to trick you into thinking the product is legitimate. In order to work correctly and safely, HID headlamps must be designed from the start as HID headlamps.

What about the law, what does it have to say on the matter? In virtually every first-world country, HID "retrofits" into halogen headlamps are illegal. They're illegal clear across Europe and in all of the many countries that use European ECE headlight regulations. They're illegal in the US and Canada. Some people dismiss this because North American regulations, in particular, are written in such a manner as to reject a great many genuinely good headlamps. Nevertheless, on the particular count of HID "retrofits" into halogen headlamps, the world's regulators and engineers all say DON'T!

The only safe and legitimate HID retrofit is one that replaces the entire headlamp—that is lens, reflector, bulb...the whole system—with optics designed for HID usage. In the aftermarket, it is possible to get clever with the growing number of available products, such as Hella's modular projectors available in HID or halogen, and fabricate your own brackets and bezels.

Installing HID optics (such as projectors designed to accept an HID bulb) in halogen headlamp housings can be done, but it is a great deal more complicated and difficult to do correctly than is commonly understood. Typically the process involves baking the headlight assembly to loosen the adhesive, removing the lens, cutting the reflector, mounting the HID projector, and using silicone to reseal the lens. Sounds simple? Sure, but there are significant and substantial issues and challenges. The projector has to be mounted very precisely with respect to its centre of gravity; if not, it will shake out of alignment (and eventually off its mounts). Many sealants, adhesives, and paints produce gases that attack and fog lamp optics. The low beam projector has to be aimed correctly relative to the high beam or else the finished headlamp will be aimable so the lows or the highs are pointed in the correct direction, but not both. Once the headlamp has been opened, it is very challenging to get a good and durable seal against moisture and dirt ingress. None of these challenges is insurmountable, and there are outfits specialising in this kind of optical transplant. Shop very carefully if you are in the market, pay careful attention to the guarantee offered on the work, and be aware that even if the transplanted optics come from a legal headlamp, the end result—the modified headlamp—is no longer compliant with the applicable regulations.

Some "HID kit" marketeers will try to tell you that the kits are technically illegal only because the US headlamp laws are stuck in the past. That's wrong; the world's experts and regulators all say the same thing: Don't!

Now, what about those "retrofit" jobs in which the beam cutoff still appears sharp? Don't be fooled; it's an error to judge a beam pattern solely by its cutoff. In many lamps, especially the projector types, the cutoff will remain the same regardless of what light source is behind it. Halogen bulb, HID capsule, cigarette lighter, firefly, hold it up to the sun—whatever. That's because of the way a projector lamp works. The cutoff is simply the projected image of a piece of metal running side-to-side behind the lens. Where the optics come in is in distributing the light under the cutoff. And, as with all other automotive lamps (and, in fact, all optical instruments), the optics are calculated based not just on where the light source is within the lamp (focal length) but also the specific photometric characteristics of the light source...which parts of it are brighter, which parts of it are darker, where the boundaries of the light source are, whether the boundaries are sharp or fuzzy, the shape of the light source, and so forth.

As if the optical mismatch weren't reason enough to drop the idea of "retrofitting" an HID bulb where a halogen one belongs—and it is!—there are even more reasons why not to do it. Here are some of them:

The only available arc capsules have a longitudinal arc (arc path runs front to back) on the axis of the bulb, but many popular halogen headlamp bulbs, such as 9004, 9007, H3 and H12, use a filament that is transverse (side-to-side) and/or offset (not on the axis of the bulb) central axis of the headlamp reflector). In this case, it is impossible even to roughly approximate the position and orientation of the filament with a "retrofit" HID capsule. Just because your headlamp might use an axial-filament bulb, though, doesn't mean you've jumped the hurdles—the laws of optical physics don't bend even for the cleverest marketing department, nor for the catchiest HID "retrofit" kit box.

A relatively new gimmick is HID arc capsules set in an electromagnetic base so that they shift up and down or back and forth. These are being marketed as "dual beam" kits that claim to address the loss of high beam with fixed-base "retrofits" in place of dual-filament halogen bulbs like 9004, 9007, H4, and H13. A cheaper variant of this is one that uses a fixed HID bulb with a halogen bulb strapped or glued to the side of it...yikes! What you wind up with is two poorly-formed beams, at best. The reason the original equipment market has not adopted the movable-capsule designs they've been playing with since the mid 1990s is because it is impossible to control the arc position accurately so it winds up in the same position each and every time.

In the original-equipment field, there are single-capsule dual-beam systems appearing ("BiXenon", etc.), but these all rely on a movable optical shield, or movable reflector—the arc capsule stays in one place. The Original Equipment engineers have a great deal of money and resources at their disposal, and if a movable capsule were a practical way to do the job, they'd do it. The "retrofit" kits certainly don't address this problem anywhere near satisfaction. And even if they did, remember: Whether a fixed or moving-capsule "retrofit" is contemplated, solving the arc-position problem and calling it good is like going to a hospital with two broken ribs, a sprained ankle and a crushed toe and having the nurse say "Well, you're free to go home now, we've put your ankle in a sling!" Focal length (arc/filament positioning) is only just ONE issue out of several.

The most dangerous part of the attempt to "retrofit" Xenon headlamps is that sometimes you get a deceptive and illusory "improvement" in the performance of the headlamp. The performance of the headlamp is perceived to be "better" because of the much higher level of foreground lighting (on the road immediately in front of the car). However, the beam patterns produced by this kind of "conversion" virtually always give less distance light, and often an alarming lack of light where there's meant to be a relative maximum in light intensity. The result is the illusion that you can see better than you actually can, and that's not safe.

It's tricky to judge headlamp beam performance without a lot of knowledge, a lot of training and a lot of special equipment, because subjective perceptions are very misleading. Having a lot of strong light in the foreground, that is on the road close to the car and out to the sides, is very comforting and reliably produces a strong impression of "good headlights". The problem is that not only is foreground lighting of decidedly secondary importance when travelling much above 30 mph, but having a very strong pool of light close to the car causes your pupils to close down, worsening your distance vision...all the while giving you this false sense of security. This is to say nothing of the massive amounts of glare to other road users and backdazzle to you, the driver, that results from these "retrofits".

HID headlamps also require careful weatherproofing and electrical shielding because of the high voltages involved. These unsafe "retrofits" make it physically possible to insert an HID bulb where a halogen bulb belongs, but this practice is illegal and dangerous, regardless of claims by these marketers that their systems are "beam pattern corrected" or the fraudulent use of established brand names to try to trick you into thinking the product is legitimate. In order to work correctly and safely, HID headlamps must be designed from the start as HID headlamps.

What about the law, what does it have to say on the matter? In virtually every first-world country, HID "retrofits" into halogen headlamps are illegal. They're illegal clear across Europe and in all of the many countries that use European ECE headlight regulations. They're illegal in the US and Canada. Some people dismiss this because North American regulations, in particular, are written in such a manner as to reject a great many genuinely good headlamps. Nevertheless, on the particular count of HID "retrofits" into halogen headlamps, the world's regulators and engineers all say DON'T!

The only safe and legitimate HID retrofit is one that replaces the entire headlamp—that is lens, reflector, bulb...the whole system—with optics designed for HID usage. In the aftermarket, it is possible to get clever with the growing number of available products, such as Hella's modular projectors available in HID or halogen, and fabricate your own brackets and bezels.

Installing HID optics (such as projectors designed to accept an HID bulb) in halogen headlamp housings can be done, but it is a great deal more complicated and difficult to do correctly than is commonly understood. Typically the process involves baking the headlight assembly to loosen the adhesive, removing the lens, cutting the reflector, mounting the HID projector, and using silicone to reseal the lens. Sounds simple? Sure, but there are significant and substantial issues and challenges. The projector has to be mounted very precisely with respect to its centre of gravity; if not, it will shake out of alignment (and eventually off its mounts). Many sealants, adhesives, and paints produce gases that attack and fog lamp optics. The low beam projector has to be aimed correctly relative to the high beam or else the finished headlamp will be aimable so the lows or the highs are pointed in the correct direction, but not both. Once the headlamp has been opened, it is very challenging to get a good and durable seal against moisture and dirt ingress. None of these challenges is insurmountable, and there are outfits specialising in this kind of optical transplant. Shop very carefully if you are in the market, pay careful attention to the guarantee offered on the work, and be aware that even if the transplanted optics come from a legal headlamp, the end result—the modified headlamp—is no longer compliant with the applicable regulations.

Please note: From time to time, I am asked to comment on what are marketed as "new developments" in HID kits, and those asking sometimes point out to me that these "new developments" might render this article out-of-date, since the copyright date on the article is older than the date of these "new developments". Please understand, marketeers will always be coming up with dazzling new pseudoscience, tempting new hype and sneaky new ways of trying to convince you to buy their stuff. It's what they do. This article will never go out of date, because the problems with HID kits are conceptual problems, not problems of implementation. Therefore, they cannot be overcome by additional research and development, any more than someone could develop a way for you to put on somebody else's eyeglasses and see correctly.


Website source: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/home.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
321 Posts
I could care less what Daniel Stern says about my lights.

Anyway, the HID's look good. What kit did you install? Would installation be hard for someone w/o any lighting experience?
 

·
Sonic Mk3 Crew #03
Joined
·
1,842 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I could care less what Daniel Stern says about my lights.

Anyway, the HID's look good. What kit did you install? Would installation be hard for someone w/o any lighting experience?
Not At all Plug and Play very simple I use RSI Digitals from Philips I have a wholesale account with them.

You are required to do 55w ballasts and a relay kit for the 2012 focus to keep headlights functioning.

(LOL at Daniel Stern) Him and I can go at it all day. Simple fact is hes a dinosaur he needs to stop selling bulbs with filaments and catch up with the times. BTW you see that mans website? Ya hes a real big time hot shot in the lighting community... While companys OSRAM, PHILIPS, DENSO, BOSCH, HELLA, MITSUBISHI all multi million and even billion dollar companys are making HID Retrofit or HID Conversion bulbs..

But Go ahead post another poor source Im sure you get happy doing this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
321 Posts
Awesome! for some reason I was expecting it to be difficult. Do you know anything about the DDM kit? Saw some in person & they looked good. Have a guarantee on them too but they seem kinda cheap in price for a quality HID kit. I'm not really looking to go the cheap route
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
621 Posts
I have ddm costumer service sucks big time took forever. Won't buy from them again. And donut right. I hate my beam pattern. I'm going to do a miniH1 retrofit and do it the right way. Yeah it's cool but I hate the. Glare that I can see I can see my whole house light up when it shouldn't go past the garage door. You can't tell me it's. It blinding people.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
220 Posts
Awesome! for some reason I was expecting it to be difficult. Do you know anything about the DDM kit? Saw some in person & they looked good. Have a guarantee on them too but they seem kinda cheap in price for a quality HID kit. I'm not really looking to go the cheap route
I sold my DDM kit locally (for a profit of 40 dollars might i add) and the buyer is as happy with them as i was. i put 10k 35w in a stock housing with laminx to dull it down a little and they were great, i have machs now and i have to say i like them way more, but DDM doesn't make housings so that isn't their fault

a majority of the people on this forum have never had a problem with DDM, including myself, however there are a few that don't like their products

also i understand we have completely different generations of foci. but DDM is a good company
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
671 Posts
Not At all Plug and Play very simple I use RSI Digitals from Philips I have a wholesale account with them.

You are required to do 55w ballasts and a relay kit for the 2012 focus to keep headlights functioning.

(and LOL at Daniel Stern another internet troll) me and him can go at it all day. Simple fact is hes a dinosaur he needs to stop selling bulbs with filaments and catch up with the times. BTW you see that mans website? Ya hes a real big time hot shot in the lighting community... While companys OSRAM, PHILIPS, DENSO, BOSCH, HELLA, MITSUBISHI all multi million and even billion dollar companys are making HID Retrofit or HID Conversion bulbs..

But Go ahead post another poor source Im sure you get happy doing this.
So, your response to all those points is that he's a dinosaur and that companies like BOSCH, HELLA, etc are making HID Retrofit or HID Conversion bulbs?

Something tells me you didn't do a whole lot of reading, but congratulations on welcoming friendly discussion and responding with nothing relavant, but we're just the trolls here not you.

Also in regard to whom Daniel Stern is, he's actually among the top consultaning agencies in all of North America in regards to lighting science and technology, but I'm sure your credentials far outweigh his.
 

·
Sonic Mk3 Crew #03
Joined
·
1,842 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Hes A salesman for a halogen lights i think if i was selling halogens I would be saying the same thing.

Hes stating that ALL HID retrofits are illegal (false), he also states that all retrofits refracts light to much to be productive (again false I just provided proof that they dont)

Hes a Salesman that simple. Also Please show other credentials besides his website about who he is. (which is irrelevant to this arguement about how their illegal and not as bright)

Again that source is extremely weak to use in any arguement especially since its a source and not hands on experience. Since Im sure you have so much hands on experience...

I could further waste my time and put a factory bulb on any of my or my customers vehicles and show the light output difference between a halogen and an HID. Theres no comparison and Im sure even if I did that you would have some other awesome source to further argue your side which has nothing to do with anything youve done personally other then typing a search into google... This is why I consider people that argue with no EXPERIENCE "Trolls" simple as that.
 

·
Hatch Nation #136
Joined
·
2,043 Posts
The guy had two cracks at Kevin and still couldn't handle him. No way I'm trusting this guy when I'm looking to do an HID install:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
My issue with HIDs (aside from improper alignment by some people), is their lack of full spectrum output. The bluish tint of cheaper/older HIDs is especially a dead giveaway. Aside from not having many blue deer around here ;-) , the blue wavelengths not only cause your pupils to constrict the most but it is also the part of the spectrum of visible light where your retina is least sensitive. Only 2% of cones can detect blue light wavelengths. Versus red, which doesn't cause your pupils to constrict and green which is where your rods are most sensitive.

TL:DR; blue is the worst color for night vision.

Now all that said, most most modern HIDs seem to have fixed the "bluish tint" issue. I'm always open to use new technology, but I'd like to see a spectrograph of their output.
 

·
Sonic Mk3 Crew #03
Joined
·
1,842 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
My issue with HIDs (aside from improper alignment by some people), is their lack of full spectrum output. The bluish tint of cheaper/older HIDs is especially a dead giveaway. Aside from not having many blue deer around here ;-) , the blue wavelengths not only cause your pupils to constrict the most but it is also the part of the spectrum of visible light where your retina is least sensitive. Only 2% of cones can detect blue light wavelengths. Versus red, which doesn't cause your pupils to constrict and green which is where your rods are most sensitive.

TL:DR; blue is the worst color for night vision.

Now all that said, most most modern HIDs seem to have fixed the "bluish tint" issue. I'm always open to use new technology, but I'd like to see a spectrograph of their output.
Best Post I have seen to date! And I agree blue which is also not brightest is also the worst light for nighttime driving, in rain especially since blue is not shown properly on wet roads (i have no science for that but for whatever reason blue is crappy on wet roads). 6000k which is offered as OEM replacements for most HID cars today from the factory by Osram and Philips is right where the light starts to turn blue but is very much white quite possibly the whitest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
743 Posts
the point is, HID bulbs were designed and meant for a projector lens housing. TO project the concentrated beam ONLY on the road in front of you.

FocusBoy, why dont you take a projector lens and a stock halogen lens BOTH with HIDs and compare the actual light output(using a proper light meter) at a fixed distance and see WHY the need for projector lenses. Also, take note of the excess light going in all other directions from the Halogen housing.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
743 Posts
6000k which is offered as OEM replacements for most HID cars today from the factory by Osram and Philips is right where the light starts to turn blue but is very much white quite possibly the whitest.
I am a reef tank enthusiast. What I find funny, is 6000k in a auto bulb is white white, 6k in an aquarium bulb is quite yellow, 10,000k is still white in aquariums. Things dont get really blue until about 12k for coral lighting. I just never understood the difference. Since they make Coral lighting in direct contrast from the sun and its lighting filtering through the ocean. Just something I find strange, its like 2 different spectrums or something.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
HID technology has come a long way, and they do look very good in most cars and most people and adjust so there is little (better stated as "think there is little") amounts of light thrown out.

I'm not particularly bothered by the lights of retrofitted HID's into stock reflectors, however, I can spot them quite easily as opposed to proper HID's with projectors.

The argument about all these companies making millions of dollars selling these kits is quite the lame excuse. What about all those pharmaceutical companies that have sold drugs they know weren't good, and had lawsuits filed against them. Was the drugs they sold just fine because they sold a large amount of them?

Bark all you want about why you will keep them. I pity the fool who gets into an accident with me, with his HID kit in his reflectors. Because even if it is my fault I will take you to the cleaners and have you buy me a new car. How you might ask??? Easy, I just have to take you to court and prove you had HID's in your car. Since they are illegal, you are at fault for operating a motor vehicle with unsafe lighting.

BTW, here is a quote from Philips on their HID kits (yes, one of those multimillion dollar companies)

"All HID conversion kits or Xenon HID, no matter the source, are not DOT approved if installed outside of the factory. Moreover, in the U.S, this is not street legal for use on public roads. As a result, we officially endorse the HID headlights kit for exhibition and off-road use and will only sell the HID kits to be used for these purposes. We are not responsible for buyers who violate the terms of sale. They will assume all responsibilities for any unauthorized or unintended use other than exhibition or off-road use."
 

·
Sonic Mk3 Crew #03
Joined
·
1,842 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I am a reef tank enthusiast. What I find funny, is 6000k in a auto bulb is white white, 6k in an aquarium bulb is quite yellow, 10,000k is still white in aquariums. Things dont get really blue until about 12k for coral lighting. I just never understood the difference. Since they make Coral lighting in direct contrast from the sun and its lighting filtering through the ocean. Just something I find strange, its like 2 different spectrums or something.
Ya I wish I had an Answer to that to be honest. Some companies kelvin ranges look so much different from another company. It seems they just pull that number out of their ass lol

I have a 01 with True Osram Hid Projectors and Im not super fond of them compared to lets say Mach HIDs or my C4R Converted Corvette Headlights with Projectors. It seems some companies projectors are better then others. But Yes there is a very straight cut off on projectors and yes some cars with reflectors have a decent cut off and provide alot of light to the ground and not into eyes. But either way projector or not its easy to tell when someone with HIDs are in front of you. Either way your eyes always have to adjust thats just the nature of the beast. I understand that some people just buy them throw them in and think their done. But if I did that to the 30 or so semi trucks ive done they would fail DOT inspections (which they never do).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
671 Posts
HID technology has come a long way, and they do look very good in most cars and most people and adjust so there is little (better stated as "think there is little") amounts of light thrown out.

I'm not particularly bothered by the lights of retrofitted HID's into stock reflectors, however, I can spot them quite easily as opposed to proper HID's with projectors.

The argument about all these companies making millions of dollars selling these kits is quite the lame excuse. What about all those pharmaceutical companies that have sold drugs they know weren't good, and had lawsuits filed against them. Was the drugs they sold just fine because they sold a large amount of them?

Bark all you want about why you will keep them. I pity the fool who gets into an accident with me, with his HID kit in his reflectors. Because even if it is my fault I will take you to the cleaners and have you buy me a new car. How you might ask??? Easy, I just have to take you to court and prove you had HID's in your car. Since they are illegal, you are at fault for operating a motor vehicle with unsafe lighting.

BTW, here is a quote from Philips on their HID kits (yes, one of those multimillion dollar companies)

"All HID conversion kits or Xenon HID, no matter the source, are not DOT approved if installed outside of the factory. Moreover, in the U.S, this is not street legal for use on public roads. As a result, we officially endorse the HID headlights kit for exhibition and off-road use and will only sell the HID kits to be used for these purposes. We are not responsible for buyers who violate the terms of sale. They will assume all responsibilities for any unauthorized or unintended use other than exhibition or off-road use."

was going to respond with something similar, nice find.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
297 Posts
Focusboy et al, your minds are made up regarding your HID mods, and there's little that we can say to change your mind.
I'll say my piece and move on; just been blinded once too often by HID conversions that throw light all over hell and half of Georgia, and I have to say something.

Having taken a look at your initial pictures, claims of having a 'sharp cutoff' are simply delusional. I've been installing E-code lights in cars for thirty years, and I've seen the beam pattern of my bride's Audi with OEM HIDs. Both have an incredibly sharp low beam cutoff, the line straight as a ruler with no light whatsoever above it. The E-codes have the traditional hockey stick kick-up to the right, while the HIDs are simply flat. They bear no resemblance to your pictures at all.

If you believe that you aren't scattering dazzle, you are fooling yourself. And if you use lights that scatter too much in our misty mountains, you'll be blinding yourself as well. HIDs can't be done on the cheap, much as I wish it were otherwise.
Moon
 

·
FF's Night Security
Joined
·
28,766 Posts
Well there will always be two sides of the argument. The one problem I have is when people put the HID's and then don't aim the damn things right. I have HID's in my stock housings and they are aimed and blind no one. Now it's these older trucks and stuff that they put them in and they just shine bright light all over the darn place. That I can't stand. Oh and in TX didn't they pass a law saying it was ok to have HID's? I'll have to look into it.
 
1 - 20 of 150 Posts
Top