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FF Cleaning Squad
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Discussion Starter #1
Well here is the thread to compare BOTH kits.

This is refering to the FS Stage 1 compared to the Hi-boost stage 1.

This is not a thread for BASHING, if there is any the thread will be trashed asap.

I will start.

My first question is about the nonintercooled FS turbo, I read on another thread where a member was taking his 2.3 to the drag strip. One of the FS reps said its best not to let the car idle long. How will this affect a daily driver car in stop and go traffic, will we need to get the intercooled stage 2 and either turn down the boost or spend allmost a grand on new rods, or will it be ok? Also there is the possibility of a traffic jam/ accident. What then?
 

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honestly. if you dont want to wait for FS to get the intercooler upgrade. i would go with the hi boost setup..

i remember hearing someone say also that a non-turbo car being turbo'd isnt good as a daily driver.

im sure if you went turbo, the best thing would be to run an OK amount of boost. and crank it only so often... unless the engine is built and can handle it alot
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I dont want the insane amount of power that most do, 8psi is a good number for me if the motor can handel it and the car as a daily driver can take it I would be fine with that alone. I proposed the question about the idle time b/c it seems the FS stage one kind of hinders the cars daily driver capabilities, I drive most highway and do very little city also due to the open raods in alabama as long as I stay off the interstate backed up traffic is not an issue either. It was a hypothetical question for me and more of a probable question for others.
 

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I agree Focusin , as a daily driver in some cases long idle times are at a hands reach an mostly unpredictable , but also being a daily driver there are tendancies to open er up , some ppl here have heavy hoofs , for that i use my self as an example , sitting in traffic for 20 min , get out on an open stretch .... an just giver er untill a change of a lower speed is needed , and with the car being N/A this wot usage can be preformed all day long.

in a nut shell a person with a mild to harsh driving style how long would the engine hold out before it blows? at a reasonable 8 psi and intercooled an no other upgrades to engine internals
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yea I can see the daily driver turbo car going through a lot of issues, I have a heavy foot myself and I with all the highway driving I do I dont see to many 30-40mph the slowest I go is usually 50, fastest being... well you know.[:D]

But what about all these turboed cars on here that are DD (daily drivers)? I have not heard/ seen to many threads about properly tuned/ not overboosted cars having issues.

Also what about the hi boost kit? How will it do under DD conditions?
 

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Ok.. but WHY would we not want to let the car idle? This is a question for people who have more experience with turbos.

I'm guessing that this has something to do with oiling the bearings, but it's definately worth investigating, and asking the guys in the FI forum.

The biggest difference besides the intercooler between the two kits is the wastegate. An internal wastegate would cause the bearings to heat up more so than the external wastegate. I'm gonna go shoot this question at the guys in the FI forum, or maybe Tom, but I hate to bother him since he's retiring.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It had to do with running hot I belive, while idling no air can get in to cool the car and it might run in danger I suppose. [dunno]
 

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Well, at idle it would have to be something other than the engine temperature, because the turbo isn't spooled or doing anything. There might be an issue with detonation because air hotter than the air intake temperature sensor can read is being drawn into the engine. I don't think it would be a coolant overheating issue though because that shouldn't be any different at idle.

And yeah- if I was using an intercooled turbo for example- I'd want at least one fan on at idle if it's possible to program it that way to cool the intake air charge even if the turbo wasn't running.

Hey, here's another bonus of the Hi-Boost system: A long time ago I did some research on the types of turbos that Hi-Boost was using, and they have two models- one for high hp that spools at 3500, and another for low rpm boost that spools at 2500. It's been a while or I'd provide links. I'll see if I can figure out where I found that. Also, if I'm not mistaken (and I haven't looked recently) Hi-Boost sells a billet intake manifold made by Golden Eagle Industries that is $100 less than the Cossie manifold, and accepts 70mm TB's.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Quote from FS on [FJ]


"Remember, you have a non intercooled car. Make sure you don't let it idle for long periods of time while you are waiting in line. It will get hot and I do have it pull spark when the IATs get up there. I'd push the car up the line when you can if its a long line. Thats what I used to do for the Autocross grid. Saves gas, too."

My friends MR2 has a fan that sits on his intercooler and its hooked to a switch, but with the nonintercooled kit how can we keep it from getting to hot?
 

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You can't, that's why he says that he retards the spark when the IAT (idle air temperature) gets too high. When you're running a lean mixture- NA or FI- you have to retard the spark to prevent detonation.

It seems my original guess about the bearing lubrication was wrong. LOL this means I made myself look like an idiot in the FI forum, but I'm not up on FI knowledge. I worked on a couple, but I've never owned one.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
LOL Dont worry man, I have never worked on any F/I car and i honestly dont know the first thing about F/I. I know how they work but thats about it, when it comes to the diffrent turbos, wastegates, oil catch cans, and all that other stuff I am lost.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
whynotthinkwhynot said:
You can't, that's why he says that he retards the spark when the IAT (idle air temperature) gets too high.
So I guess so far Hi Boost has a leg up on FS, but the price is a huge diffrence while the FS kit comes with new injectors and everything. Does the Hi-boost come tuned and include hardware such as injectors included in the price? If not it might be cheaper/more effeciant if I just got tubing and a intercooler installed with the FS kit.
 

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I never saw a price on the Hi-Boost kit. I know one thing for sure, it's a shame Tom is semi-retiring, but more power to him IMHO. Believe me, if I can retire at 45, I'll be gooooooooooooooooooooone.. LOL

May the force of capital investment be with you[thumb]
 

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Personally, I want to see the dynos first. From what I was reading about the IHI VF22, it is a high HP turbo used as a replacement for STI stock turbos capable of 350 whp. It's designed for high rpm like I thought my memory remembered. The VF23 on the other hand has a similar body, but smaller compressor side enabling it to give boost at a lower rpm, but less boost at high rpm. I also found that intake manifold I mentioned earlier, but I can't get the page to open. It's at www.overboost.com. Golden Eagle doesn't list it on their site, but that doesn't mean they don't make it since they are basically a custom performance part maker.
 

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focusin said:
... Does the Hi-boost come tuned and include hardware such as injectors included in the price? If not it might be cheaper/more effeciant if I just got tubing and a intercooler installed with the FS kit.
Here's my email to HiBoost

Hi.


I've been reading a lot about a hiboost turbo kit for the duratec foci for a long time, i'd like to get one from your company because of your reputation, the word out there speaks highly of you guys. I heard a couple of days ago is coming out in production very soon.

Can you give me a few details?, such as psi, what kind of turbo, intercooled or non intercooled, but most importantly the estimated price.

I'd really appreciate it

There's a lot of foci owners waiting for another option on turbo kits for duratec foci

Thank you in advance

Alex


And the answer...

Hello Alex,

The turbo kit is in production and we will have them ready to ship by May 25th. We are just waiting for a few parts like injectors and the SCT calibrators, but all the hardware is in stock. The kit comes with cast 4 into 1 manifold, IHI VF22 dual ball bearing turbo (capable of 350 WHP) front mounted intercooler with a 24 x 7 x 3 inch core made in the USA (bar and plate) silicone hoses, HKS By Pass valve, 4- 39 lb/hr injectors, SCT calibrator with the map inside, steel braided oil lines, 2.5" Downpipe, and all necessary hardware to install the kit in less than 8 hours and with regular tools.

The kit runs on 7 psi and can go as much as 10 psi with the stock internals. If you go with lower compression pistons, then 14 psi will be a daily driver on 91 octane.

The price is $3,900.00 plus shipping

Here is an attached picture,

Juan Oviedo


Hope it answers some of the questions.

As y'all know i am a noob, but i am a noob who likes to read and research a lot, so far i have seen a lot of people agreeing that:

- an external wastegate is more efficient than the internal.
- 7psi is good for a daily driver, who likes to floor it once in a while when traffic permits or if a tc pulls right beside you on a red light[;)]
- a daily driver needs an intercooled kit.

Please correct me if i am wrong on the previous.

I would tend to go with the HiBoost, because of the external wastegate, (it seems to be a must), because it comes intercooled already and also because these people have been turboing duratec engines for a while now

I know this doesn't have to do anything with a focus or anything, but my friend has a honda civic, he turboed it about a year ago and he is a daily driver on stock internals, he is running at 7 psi, and so far he hasn't had a problem, and he drives 90% city. I don't know if it is a good comparison but it does say something.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
That is great information thanks for posting that, so in my book the Hi boost has two up on FS.

One more thing that I like is the fact that the hi boost kit has the filter up in the engine bay, I have a extreme fear of hydrolock and I know that will be impossible with this kit.

I am gonna give FS a call and let them know about the thread so we can get a opinion or two from them, guarinox if you could let the fine people at Hi boost about it so we can get both sides

Thanks
Jon
 

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Done Focusin, mission accomplished, sent him an email.

He always answers right away, so he should be posting here soon.

Let the games begin!!!![;)]
 

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Looking forward to it.. I'd also like to ask him how well the VF23 would work in the same situation, or where the turbo spools with the VF22. It's possible that it would spool at a lower rpm than when the same turbo is used on a WRX.
 

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Let me give some information about this turbo now and a complete information sheet will be posted soon.

The VF22 IHI turbo is a very good design unit and comes with a dual ceramic ball bering centersection. This design allows a very good response for quick spool and still very good top end power. In the case of the WRX, it is the engine design that makes the turbo "laggy" and not the turbo itself. In the 2.0 Duratec the boost comes very quick at around 2700 RPMs and this unit will outflow the GT28R. We have been using this unit in our kits for cars with engines from 1.6 to 2.3 liter engines with great success. There is no need to go with VF23, VF24 or any other. The VF22 is the largest turbo available in this configuration and it does work very well in the Duratecs. We have been using this turbo in the 2.0 Duratec since 2004 and in the 2.0 FS Mazda motor since 2001. In fact, the fastest Street Mazda Protege runs one of our kits with this unit making 12.00 at the 1/4 mile and 116 MPH and 357 WHP.

Like I said, the complete information about the turbo will follow very soon as well as our web site being updated with info about the kit.

Juan
HiBoost Turbo Systems, Inc.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks for the info Juan, I will give FS a call on monday so they can come in too.
 
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