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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,
I have been getting more and more into suspension/chassis engineering lately, and I would like to put together a compilation of data on the Foci that I could them make available to everyone.
For example, I would enter the stock roll center/instant center/center of gravity/etc and then make all the values correspond to each other. (Yeah, I do just a little Excel work in my day to day). This would allow people to see and understand not only the stock geometry, but also how everything else would be affected by a modification, and what sort of mods could really enhance the chassis.
Anyway, I wanted to see right off the bat if there are any industrious souls out there who have already collected this sort of data so that I could get a head-start and not spend the next month under my car with a ruler and flashlight.
Also, I wanted to see if there is anyone who would like to help me in such an endeavor, as it’s a pretty serious undertaking. One that could help us all out greatly…

It doesn’t have to stop there either. I was just figuring all the formulas for showing actual effects of weight reduction (seeing as it’s pretty much a parabolic curve), but we could include calculators for;

Gear ratios – effect of wheel changes, optimal shift points at different power levels…
Weight – not just sprung but unsprung/driveline/etc. & correlated to chassis (Center of Gravity, Moment of Inertia)
Area under the power curve – the true measure of usable power
Any number of engine factors – really too many to contemplate…

Really, any one of a thousand different factors and corollaries that could be used in so many ways.

Think of it! Real, hard data instead of conjecture, advertising, and 3rd person accounts.

This doesn’t have to be done all at once, but can be added to whenever a new discussion/question comes up. We find the hard data, add to it, and there you go, Wikipedia style. I feel confident that there are at least a few other people out there as intensely geeky as I am, and more than a few who have knowledge and experience that I do not. Let’s share!
 

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Man! That would be awesome! But Im not too good at any of that stuff so Ill just be support.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Wow, nobody has any numbers or enthusiasm for this? I thought more people would be into this. Was out on vacation for four days and expected to see a bunch of replies...

Oh well. I still want to do it and will try to gather everything on my own.
 

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Focused Focus
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What all do you want? I could probably help you.
 

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Sückn' n Blown
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Sorry, it must have slipped off of the page before I could see it.

I like the idea. I tried a long time ago to do similiar stuff, but didn't get too far. I started with a gear ratio calculations, and then started to work on a shift point computer, but I lost direction.

Damn, I can't upload it here, since it needs to be a picture. I'll see if I can upload it tonight somewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I need things like;

Suspension mounting point heights
Kingpin angle
Ball Joint Heights
Suspension travel from full droop to bumpstop
Standard Alignment settings and adjusment limits
Weight Distribution (F/R & L/R)
Part Weight (Hood, Battery, A/C, anything anybody knows for fact)
Center of Gravity height (this is a tough one)
Dampening Curves Stock/Aftermarket (equally tough)
Spring Rates Stock/Aftermarket
etc etc etc

Lots of stuff, but imagine how useful it will be once it's all centralized and I have made it all relative!

I can calculate;
Scrub Radius
Roll Center
Instant Roll Center
Anti-Squat / Anti-Dive
Wheel Rate
Moment of Inertia (For all kinds of things)


IE - I put on Eibach Coilovers with this ride height/spring rate/dampening, how does that effect everything.

I would create a website through the SCCA’s free site offer, and publish everything, with an invitation for anybody to contribute, Wikipedia style. I would also include helpful explanations, and where possible, pics/graphs/diagrams to help explain. In fact, once I have the infra-structure setup, you could enter the data for ANY car and get a crapload of great data.

BIG BIG mucho thanks to anyone who can help out.

If you can put those gear ratios into Excel, perhaps I can work on them. Email them to me at

[email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter #8
b16sir1991

I have been trying to reply to your PM with my address, but your box is full and won't take any more replies. Please let me know when you've opened up some space and I'll send that to you.

Thanks Egz!
 

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Focused Focus
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Oops! sorry, try again........
 

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Discussion Starter #10

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Focused Focus
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What vehicles does that cover, or do you have to put all the info in?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
You put the info in, and it will put anything through it's paces. You get to see the full dynamic range and how everythig moves graphically and can extrapolate all of the data.

The only thing I am not sure about is how to figure in the stiffness of the frame itself...
 

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Focused Focus
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Did you get the paperwork i sent ya?
 

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I personally find the idea exciting, as the person who tried to raise discussion on the affects on the chassis of a stiff rear suspension, trying to just generalize what should be happening to the contact patches under turning and braking with significantly different front and rear suspension stiffnesses. For the first few days the general response was something like .....*blink*... *blink*... I think one poster actually said his head was going to explode.

I hope you meet success, such a pooling of knowledge would be a utopian gesture. Saddly I have nothing to contribute save my unwavering support, but I have a hunch people like B16sir can help you out.
 

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Focused Focus
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All i can offer is anything from Ford. If he actually needs measurements, i have about 18 above ground racks and two alignment racks that we can do the measureing on.lol
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hey man, got the info you sent. Thanks a bunch! Didn't get much time to go through it as I got home at about 9:30 PM last night, but I have a several multi-hour airplane rides next week to pore through it.

The most vital things, if you guys are bored at work and have access to the lift, would be the dimensions of the suspension pieces themselves. Height of all the suspension "Points", (ball joint, hub, chassis mounting points, etc.) from the ground and each other at stock ride height. From that, using some simple geometry, I can extrapolate a ton of data.
 

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Focused Focus
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Ill see what i can do, that shouldnt be a problem. The measurements will be from a svt though. So they may be slightly different than a standard focus. Also, do you need the dimensions from a stock car? Mine has alot of suspension work done, is that going to be useless info?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yeah, I would want stock car measurements so that I could have a blank template that people could work from.

And I am 100% fine with it being an SVTF, as it would allow me to understand my own car first...
 

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The Librarian
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GREAT undertaking!
I'm most interested in seeing what you come up with.

Hopefully, you can concentrate on the rear, and shed some light on our passive rear steer setup.
I'm most anxious to see what happens with the geometry back there when entering and exiting a turn on course.

I can get you measurements as well, as mine still has the stock springs and sways.
Only changes are the KYB-AGX dampers, and 225/45/17 tire size.
 

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Focused Focus
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That would be great Doug. I dont have access to a stock SVT, but do any other focus.
 
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