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I bought a Focus yesterday and the first dealer which gave me a price quoted me $300 less than the Edmunds price without me even asking. I just said ok and did not beat them down further. On my Honda and Toyota I just offered the dealer the Edmunds price and they both said yes without argument. So it seems to be a price which both sides are ok with.
So you can get a loaded Focus that cheap? That's a great deal. If I were in the market for a gas car, that would be my first choice. I had decided a while ago that my next car would be electric, and was willing to pay the premium to support the early market for electric cars.

MSRP does not include incentives which are on the Titanium and not on the electric. It is only logical to include those incentives if you are going to include the federal tax credits on the electric. The Edmund's price factors in the current incentives.
No argument there.
 

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I think diesel/electric hybrids are the best solution when a longer range is needed. It is astonishing to me that the car makers use gasoline in their hybrids as they are leaving significant gains on the table. They could probably even use a turbine.
 

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The Titanium is not fully loaded for that.

If you add in remote start, keyless entry, winter package, navigation, 18 inch wheels, and parking assist - $23,720.
 

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If cars were 40 MPG in the 1970s, how come car makers are boasting about it now?

I guess because cars weight more now due to crash standards? Also they changed how gas mileage is tested?

 

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How cool... I remember that car. Nice question... My guess to the answers....

The Chevette was very lightly powered with a 70 horsepower engine and air conditioning was optional which dramatically reduced mpg. No electric windows, no boom box, no electic seats, no automatic windshield wipers, one dome light,

They really did not get 40 mpg, most auto advertising in the 70's was very exagerated. The US Energy Act was not initiated until 1978 and it delt primarily with gas guzzlers. Remember this was the period of low gas prices like 38 cents per gallon until the first oil crisis in 1973. I had a company car which was a 1976 LTD Ford Country Squire which maxed out at 8mph!

My first new car was a 1972 Toyota Corolla for which I paid $2440.00. This was the time when the Japanese had the first cars with high mpg and started their domination of the US market based on economy and quality. The Chevette was Chevrolet's answer to this challenge. Unfortunely GM, Ford (Pinto), AMC (Gremlin) and Chrysler (Omni) lost the battle and gave up on this effort in the early 90s.
 

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If you're comparing it to a bare bones Focus, maybe $20,000 would be the premium, but price out the Titanium trim line and the upcharge for going electric is more like $9,000.

The calculated savings is net, after you've paid for the electricity.

I've saved about $112 in fuel costs in less than a month. Even if I didn't, it would still be worth it. But that's for every buyer to decide for themselves. Don't forget to factor in the fossil fuel subsidies that we all pay to keep the price of gas artificially low.
Wikipedia:

"The formula employed by the EPA for calculating their rated MPGe does not account for any fuel or energy consumed upstream such as the generation and transmission of electrical power, or well-to-wheel life cycle, as EPA's comparison with internal combustion vehicles is made on a tank-to-wheel versus battery-to wheel basis."

I wonder how much charging loss there is?

Then again:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-technology/electric-car-battery-basics-capacity-charging-and-range.html

"Early performance claims from EV manufacturers typically ignored such losses, but the EPA does not. Its official electricity consumption figures are measured at the wall, where your home meter will measure it and add it into your bill. The EPA has accounted for the hidden electricity usage on the vehicle window sticker."

Which implies Wikipedia is incorrect, which is umpossible.
 

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Spread sheet comparison

PHP:
I need an Excel spreadsheet where I can plug in cost per gallon of gasoline, MPG of that car, MPGe of an electric car, cost per kw/hr of electricity, and percent lost due to charging.

For all I know, a 110 MPGe car uses the same dollars per 100 miles in energy as a 60 MPG diesel. No one has shown me otherwise.

By the way, I am not arguing against electric cars - but I desire more information as to energy costs.
Rsilver - As per your request, there are many spreadsheets produced in the forums. This one was particularly helpful to me and I believe answers your question specifically in regard to cost per kWh and cost per petro gallons.

www.gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?8311-Volt-Cost-Comparison-Spreadsheet
 

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While taxpayer money may be given away to the companies, the fuel tax is probably greater than that.

The govt makes way way more on a gallon of gas than the gas companies. In fact, the fuel companies have a much lower profit margin than the industries of other large companies. Their profits are only large, not because of a strong markup, but only because of the sheer size of their business.

As for the car in general, I would love it just for the technology.
The technology is a bit over the top for me. I worry about the reliability. The real joy is driving the car. It's silky smooth on the freeway and dead flat in the corners. Plenty of power for freeway passing or to claw up steep windy mountain roads. Yeah the top speed is only 84 MPH, but I haven't found the need to exceed that. Go pedal response is right now. My last car got to 60 in 6.5 seconds. The Focus takes 9+ but it's way more fun. Try it, you'll like it.
 

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Here is the thing - when I am in my car and the low fuel light comes on, my wife freaks out. I say "That means we can go 70 more miles." She thinks it means we must immediatly seek fuel.

An EV, even when fully charged, is like a gasoline car with the low fuel light on - but worse, because you can only fuel it at home.

And if you do run out, it means tow truck rather than roadside assistance brings you two gallons of gasoline.

They need turbine backup generators.
 

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Hey foci3, found your thread! Awesome :p

(Foci helped me out a great deal at the dealership where he works at, and by chance, focusfanatics.com came up :p)
 

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You can drive 75 miles on about $2.65 worth of electricity. (Local rates)
If my 2004 ford focus gets 32 miles to the gallon, and the local price of gas is 3.23, I only pay a little over $7 to go 75 miles. Making it only a $4.35 difference.
 

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Here is the thing - when I am in my car and the low fuel light comes on, my wife freaks out. I say "That means we can go 70 more miles." She thinks it means we must immediatly seek fuel.

An EV, even when fully charged, is like a gasoline car with the low fuel light on - but worse, because you can only fuel it at home.

And if you do run out, it means tow truck rather than roadside assistance brings you two gallons of gasoline.

They need turbine backup generators.
It's not like the fuel light is on...but almost. You've got about 1/8 of a tank. It's interesting that after 5 weeks of ownership, it has not been an issue at all.

I charge at work every other day. I charge when I go downtown on weekends. Sometimes I'll charge at home, but it's rare. There are over 7000 public and workplace charging stations already installed with more going in every day. At some point, we won't have to think about where they are because they'll be anywhere you happen to park. They're about the size of a parking meter and they can be used to collect parking fees too.

The battery in the Focus Electric holds 22 kWh of useable energy. That will propel you about 70 miles at 70 MPH. That'll be $2.65.
One gallon of gas has about 35 kWh. You might get half that far in a similar car. $3.50 please. Not that I would ever say that going electric will save you money. It won't. Not now anyway. Someday it will though. For now, it offsets some of the up front price premium you have to pay.

People go on about this high mileage car or that one, but they all still run on the wrong fuel. Last century's fuel.

Electricity is the fuel of the future.

Oil should be saved for plastics and air travel.

Electric cars are certainly not without compromise now, and would have no future if the they or their refueling infrastructure, never improved. Remember cell phones in 1985? What if nobody bought those? The cars and refueling infrastructure will improve and make sense for a growing percentage of people. Not for everyone, but that's OK. There will be plenty of gas for those who really can't switch for whatever reason.

I use to think like you do until I borrowed a Mini E for a few weeks. Then it was a no brainer. Now it's been five weeks (1200 miles) with the Focus Electric and like it more each time I drive it.

In other news, I drove a Honda Fit EV today. That car has no problem smoking the tires and wants to go go go. But it's not as loaded or plush as the Focus and has more road, wind, and drivetrain noise. It appears to have slightly better range. You can lease it for about $400 a month including T&L. Honda did very well with their first EV offering.
 

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Saw one at the dealer where I ordered my F150. Nice car. When the battery technology gets to where it's capable of the same range as a gas powered car I'll buy one. Until then forget it.
 
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