Focus Fanatics Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,475 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So I am intrigued by the "use a FL400S" line and did a little reading over at "Bob the Oil Guy" site...
So the filters which are the same as the MotorcraftFL400S which get good marks are: (Same size 'specs')


Motorcraft FL400S the longer bigger fitment of a Motorcraft substitute
(this from ?? I would know if my search would show him But naturally fruitless searching does not find his byline nor whom i seek. Finally bumped into him!) Wavsine is the member with the byline of using the FL400S:""Use a Motorcraft FL-400S filter to increase filtration media and oil quantity. (Drop in for FL-910S)""

Then the other replacements for the FL400S:
Fram Ultra XG3600
Mobil 1 M-1 209
Bosch Distance D3422
Bosch 3422 (regular Bosch)

Hah going filter insane here... [hihi]


Now all I have to do is try each one and then cut them open and do some inspection.. (they all already did that for me over at Bob the Oil Guy's site..)
Maybe have some sort of multiple engine testing with each brand and OEM size vs the larger Fl400S size

PS the current Fl400S is SMALLER than it used to be, and most of the other brand replacements are the original taller size)

Here are the stock filter and it's substitutes:
Motorcraft 910S stock filter
Bosch 3330
Bosch distance D3330
Mobil 1 M-1 102
Fram Ultra XG3614
The stock Motorcraft still gets big points for being a good filter at a reasonable price for the oil filter mavens..
 

·
w/ my magic bag
Joined
·
29,468 Posts
Wix, K&N, Mobil 1, Royal Purple are great filters,,,,,Right now I'm using a Mobil 1 w/ RP HPS oil,,,,,,,,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Napa Gold filters are made by Wix. Been using them for years w/ synthetic oil. Hastings are great filters also. Run, don't walk from Fram. These filters are the worst POS ever made. Instead of putting their funds into R&D, they would rather spend it on Madison Ave. If you hate your car, use Fram.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
I just had to speak up, since its hard to appreciate the work that goes into designing the action end of an oil filter- the filter paper.

My background is industrial chemistry, and in my career I had the chance to run an RD high speed coating line. Most of the fluted paper oil filters used a phenolic coated filter paper; I don't remember the pore size, but almost all of the filters mentioned have the same paper, made by two to three large companies who supply most of the filter papers used in making oil filters. Imagine Whitman #4 if you took chemistry, when you filtered stuff in your college labs..thats what oil filter paper is, with a more durable consistency (from an applied coating) to allow it to survive a fluting process to get the higher surface area in the can.

These filter papers are typically coated via reverse gravure to about 8 to 10 grams/square meter (GSM); with a heat curable phenolic coating. The coating is unique in being a b-stage, c-stage cured paper. This means that when initially coated the coating is partially cured (i.e. a b-stage cure -> partially chemically chemically cross linked), then when made into a filter, and glued into the can to form the filter, it is c-stage cured to the final crosslink density necessary to be an oil filter. This gives a hydrophilic (oil loving) paper surface with a consistent pore size to filter trash out of the oil in a car.

Intersting, the company I worked with most in this area, would coat the paper on one side ..as its harder to coat paper on both sides simultaneously - especially since uncoated untreated paper doesn't have much wet strength - and thats important since the coating used to give the paper its properties is water based. Anyway the paper is coated on one side, then made into large rolls (72" in diameter) which they would place in plastic bags,and allow the coating to "mull"...ie penetrate from the front to the back side..over the course of 4 to 6 hours.This would give a coated roll which was evenly coated on front and back all the way through the roll. As applied this coating is b-stage cured giving it the necessary strength to survive being remounted and run back through the web to web machinery and dried (in a drier that dries both sides simultaneously), this completes a c-stage final cure, as well as drying the paper to consistent moisture -> so the the filter paper has the right characteristics to make into oil filter paper.

The paper is then cut to a known shape - different for each filter..fluted, and glued into a filter can; with the end with the pipe thread is mechanically rolled with the filter side to roll the edges over together-> which seals it, preventing leaks.

So just when you though you knew more about oil filters, let me assure you that there is a lot of chemistry and science going into making a coated roll of paper, which as you do it becomes a bit of an art to do it right every time. All of this effort goes into the manufacture of oil filters -> which nearly everyone takes for granted.

BTW my friend whom I did lots of R&D work with showed me that except for the packaging; a lot of these filters are essentially identical when it comes down to the action end of the filter...the filter paper.

Cheers..and Merry Christmas all.
 

·
w/ my magic bag
Joined
·
29,468 Posts
Since we're on oil filters, What do filter manufactures add/do for synthetic filters? Or marking hype?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,900 Posts
I've had very good results from the Puralator PureOne filters.
 

·
w/ my magic bag
Joined
·
29,468 Posts
I've had very good results from the Puralator PureOne filters.
I remember those yrs ago as the #21 Puralator sponsored Mercury Cyclone nascar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Since we're on oil filters, What do filter manufactures add/do for synthetic filters? Or marking hype?
The consistent incorporation of the synthetic into the paper formation into a paper filter is difficult due to how the paper is formed on the fly in the paper machine. The initial wire section is where the pulp, or pulp with synthetics would need to dewater; prior to being pulled off by the couch section (a vacuum section where the formed, but still wet paper is pulled over onto the felt that carries the paper though the machine through the drying section (steam heated cylinders the width of the paper machine). On paper filters the companies I worked with bought this paper and then on a second machine; using a method called reverse gravure.

My guess is that high priced filters use a synthetic fiber..much like Kimberly Clark's spun-bound-melt-blown-spun-bound (SMS) substrates...you see these every day in diapers.

Anyway, these are full synthetics which are formed by spraying a web with melted polymers; they are sprayed in lanes and carefully monitored for formation. (ie formation is how even paper or a synthetic look when you hold them up and candle the substrate with a light.)

In the case of full synthetics, these are saturated typically on or off the paper machine by using a device that looks like a wide coat hanger with an open slot of the same width as the substrate you are trying to saturate or coat...i.e a slot die,which applies foamed b-stage c stage coating at a tangent to the synthetic surface. I'm guessing here, since I've worked on SMS for diapers, but not for filters. How synthetics are formed are typically proprietary; and I've never seen how SMS or its cousin tyvek is formed; even though I've worked with engineers from both Kimberly Clark and DuPont.

Again, as I said -> lots of science goes into making the filter paper or the synthetic used in the filter.

Reverse Gravure Method:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
The Anatomy of an Oil Filter: Part 1 ......... - Yellow Bullet Forums

This is a very interesting post to go through, and suggests there are several good oil filter choices. I'm still using Motorcraft synthetic blend and a Motorcraft oil filter in my fofo until the warranty runs out.

In my old 2.3 Lima, after much research I finally decided to go with Royal Purple full synthetic oil a Baldwin oil filter. I got the oil filter at Grainger Industrial Supply.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
The way to determine how good a given filter is via destructive analysis, and looking to see how well it is sealed in the canister. In a bad used filter, you will see debris from the poor construction on the in and out sides of the same filter. Typically motorcraft/fram/bosch, etc oem name brand filters are built correctly. They all need to meet standards.

Its a subject that too many get emotional about, when it comes down to which does the best job of filtration and filter construction - and typically that's the guys whose filters are built the best.

Internet reviews are specious, you never know what the reviewer is getting for what he says... For my money read GM or Ford, or other OEM test reports...they'll be unbiased.

GM Truckcentral Filter Review
California Integrated Waste Management Board Test Report on High Efficiency Filters
Olathe Toyota Commisioned Report/oil-filter-comparison-best-filters
 
  • Like
Reactions: sailor

·
w/ my magic bag
Joined
·
29,468 Posts
The Anatomy of an Oil Filter: Part 1 ......... - Yellow Bullet Forums

This is a very interesting post to go through, and suggests there are several good oil filter choices. I'm still using Motorcraft synthetic blend and a Motorcraft oil filter in my fofo until the warranty runs out.

In my old 2.3 Lima, after much research I finally decided to go with Royal Purple full synthetic oil a Baldwin oil filter. I got the oil filter at Grainger Industrial Supply.
Royal Purple HPS ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Not a Royal Purple fan, unless you like to pay extra. Chevrolet recommends Mobile 1 in their LS7 NA engine, 5W-30W..

If you want to pay extra, go with Joe Gibbs oil...

On oil, like on filters; if you want the best then send off samples and have them analyzed for metal content..or be like me change you oil every 3000 miles. I heard someone say you should only change on the specified time/milage Ford says..malarky...if you do a 3000 mile change, at least in my case..I haven't had engine issues ever (40 years). On oil analysis, again for my money follow the recommendation of the OEM's as they do spintron testing of the engine - 48 hours at redline to make sure he engine and oil will survive. All this fancy colored oils DO NOT do spintron treating. Filters and oil..I'm data driven by reports by OEM's or folks who don't have any skin in the game...i.e. they aren't trying to sell you something.

In my vette and Z/28 its once a year since neither gets more than 2000 miles/year. O course with them its 11.5qts per change w/Mobil 1 with their dry sumps...ouch. My fellow Tulsa Vette Sette member (owns a garage) charges $108 for those. I'l just take the ST to the local Ford houses...its what 5 to 5.5 qts??
 
  • Like
Reactions: RonMaiden
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top